Rings of Power -- all opinions and spoilers welcome thread.

[Parmandur]

All they needed to do was show her talking back to Gil-Galad telling him that she really didn't want to go and him insisting. Or she could have said, "I'm not sure I want to go. Though I yearn to see Aman again and the loved ones I left behind, there is still much I need to do here. Sauron is yet to be found." Or a number of other ways.

Now we know she is conflicted. You don't need internal monologues to show something like that.

I don't agree. Though not perfect, the LotR elves had much of the mystery, power and feel that Tolkien's elves had. There's none of that with these elves.

The actress got all of that across without saying a word. They showed, they didn't tell.

Honestly, the Elves here feel more like Tolkien Elves to.me, amd benefit from rather more.screen time.

 

[Maxperson]

If she does that, then it's back to Valinor.

Why? Literally no one can make her go. They aren't going to kill her and they can't force her.

Gil-galad: "Galadriel, for letting us know that the great enemy was here, you have to go to Valinor."
Galadriel: "No. And your a stupid dumb dumb face for saying that when I can prove who he was."
Gil-galad: "Well, damn!"
Galadriel: "I'll be back to visit after I found Lothlorien. You deal with him, since apparently you aren't smart enough to figure out that you can't make me do anything."

Her perception and decision making is skewed here: she is making suboptimal choices based on her flaws, which people tend to do. That's not bad writing, that's realistic.

It's bad writing, because it's not something she or any elf would ever do. Even the flawed Noldor wouldn't have done that, and she's not even one of them.

She doesn't him go: she could not stop him at this time. Which is why she decides thst she needs a Magic ring...which will have bad consequences, classic Noldor style.

Or she could have told them and said she needed a ring, which Celebrimbor would still have forged. Bad writing doesn't get better when you add bad reasons for the decision.

If she tells them, Project Ring gets shut down and Gil Galad orders a full retreat.

No it doesn't. Celebrimbor continues forward with his plan in secret, just like in the books. Or Gil-galad is convinced that the rings are the only way to stop Sauron. Remember, they have no idea that the One Ring is even possible at this point.

 

[Parmandur]

Why? Literally no one can make her go. They aren't going to kill her and they can't force her.

Gil-galad: "Galadriel, for letting us know that the great enemy was here, you have to go to Valinor."
Galadriel: "No. And your a stupid dumb dumb face for saying that when I can prove who he was."
Gil-galad: "Well, damn!"
Galadriel: "I'll be back to visit after I found Lothlorien. You deal with him, since apparently your aren't smart enough to figure out that you can't make me do anything."

As Gil-Galed and the Elves believe, if Project Ring doesn't move forward, every one of the Eldar who does not head for Valinor will die. Period, end of story, quite literally. Now, this is quite possibly a mistaken belief, bit we'll see where that goes. Point is, Galadriel believes her choices are 1.) Go West and embrace Hope, 2.) Just due, or 3.) Make Magic rings and continue the fight using the enemies own methods.

She has chosen...poorly. But given her character as presented, with the facts perceived at hand...it's the logical next step.

 

[Maxperson]

As Gil-Galed and the Elves believe, if Project Ring doesn't move forward, every one of the Eldar who does not head for Valinor will die. Period, end of story, quite literally.

Okay. Then she tells them and they move forward anyway to save the elves who aren't immortal and need their mithril lithium batteries recharged by the rings. That's not a reason not to tell them.

Point is, Galadriel believes her choices are 1.) Go West and embrace Hope, 2.) Just due, or 3.) Make Magic rings and continue the fight using the enemies own methods.

Let's go over those choices.

Choice 1 is tell them about Sauron, make the rings and go west for some reason.
Choice 2 is, well, I'm not sure what "just due" means, but whatever it is, it doesn't stop her from telling them or the rings being made.
Choice 3 is tell them about Sauron, make the rings and continue the fight.

Remember, they don't know about the One Ring or that it's even possible, so nothing about her informing them about Sauron stops them from making the rings.

She has chosen...poorly.

She didn't choose poorly. The writing was poor. There's literally no reason for her to have acted that way given either her personality from the books or her personality from the show.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

No. No they weren't. It is factual that Valinor could not possibly be seen from Numenor. Otherwise the ban was impossible nonsense as they would be landing on Valinor before sailing out of sight of Numenor. The entire point of the ban was to keep that from happening. To keep Numenor from even seeing Valinor.

Numenor was about halfway, which made it out of sight of both shores unless you were using farseeing(clairvoyance).

Canonically, they couldn't see Valinor but Tol Eressëa. It is written as such :

For in those days Valinor still remained in the world visible, and there Ilúvatar permitted the Valar to maintain upon Earth an abiding place, a memorial of that which might have been if Morgoth had not cast his shadow on the world. This the Númenóreans knew full well; and at times, when all the air was clear and the sun was in the east, they would look out and descry far off in the west a city white-shining on a distant shore, and a great harbour and a tower. For in those days the Númenóreans were far-sighted; yet even so it was only the keenest eyes among them that could see this vision, from the Meneltarma, maybe, or from some tall ship that lay off their western coast as far as it was lawful for them to go. For they did not dare to break the Ban of the Lords of the West. But the wise among them knew that this distant land was not indeed the Blessed Realm of Valinor, but was Avallónë, the haven of the Eldar upon Eressëa, easternmost of the Undying Lands.

I don't see any need to understand far-sighted metaphorically in this case, since it specifically mentions keenest eyes among them. I don't think the text imply that all Numenoreans were seers at first. And if it was clairvoyance, I could see it being boosted by standing on top of the Meneltarma because it might have some undescribed mystical, vision-boosting powers, but why would clairvoyance be better from the mast of a tall ship? Also, why would clairvoyance be impeded by lack of clarity of the air? I may be wrong, but I think it makes sense to have Numenor to be barely visible from Tol Eressea (the Eldar were supposed to trade with them so why not have a direct visual contact on where to sail to?) and to have Numenor halfway between the undying lands and Middle Earth...

 

[Maxperson]

I don't see any need to understand far-sighted metaphorically in this case, since it specifically mentions keenest eyes among them. I don't think the text imply that all Numenoreans were seers at first. And if it was clairvoyance, I could see it being boosted by standing on top of the Meneltarma because it might have some undescribed mystical, vision-boosting powers, but why would clairvoyance be better from the mast of a tall ship? Also, why would clairvoyance be impeded by lack of clarity of the air?

From the tall ship if they sailed so far west that they were at the limit of being able to see a massive island from the same mast. That's quite a distance.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

From the tall ship if they sailed so far west that they were at the limit of being able to see a massive island from the same mast. That's quite a distance.

Indeed. My original question was because I have little to no knowledge of optics and as a relevant matter, I only know that you can see Dover from Calais (20 miles) on a clear day across the channel and it's not everyday so I thought it might be close to an "upper limit". If we're speaking thousands of miles, then jumping is even more... puzzling. If one does ignore anything about the other sources, it just seems suicidal, even when Galadriel was already shown as a very strong woman.

 

[Maxperson]

Indeed. My original question was because I have little to no knowledge of optics and as a relevant matter, I only know that you can see Dover from Calais (20 miles) on a clear day across the channel and it's not everyday so I thought it might be close to an "upper limit". If we're speaking thousands of miles, then jumping is even more... puzzling. If one does ignore anything about the other sources, it just seems suicidal, even when Galadriel was already shown as a very strong woman.

The thing with the Numenoreans and Dunedain is that some of them can cast their sight farther than normal in the way elves do. They aren't just sharp eyed, but have a supernatural ability as well. The ability from comes the elven and maia blood that flows through their veins. This is also why Aragorn can use mind speech and some other abilities. And the queen in the show got visions of the end of Numenor. Elves of course are better at it and can see farther, being pure blooded.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

All they needed to do was show her talking back to Gil-Galad telling him that she really didn't want to go and him insisting. Or she could have said, "I'm not sure I want to go. Though I yearn to see Aman again and the loved ones I left behind, there is still much I need to do here. Sauron is yet to be found." Or a number of other ways.

Indeed. If they wanted to show she's conflicted about leaving, there were several ways to do that that were more consistent with the show than have her jump from a ship mid-Atlantic and... swim back home, while all the other elves on the ship just ignore her instead of shouting "elf overboard" and tying to save her by stopping their ship, trying to throw her a rope and so on. I know the scene where she escalates a frozen cliff in the beginning establishes she's strong, but not "divine-like strong", just "heroically strong". Swimming across an ocean as a sensible mode of transportation is a step farther. If it's an act of desperation, it establishes her as clearly nuts. And I feel it may be the case, if we disregard every other source of information.

1. She's been seeing Sauron's influence for millenia without tangible proof
2. She's been so focused on that hatred that she forgot to inquire seriously about the fate of her husband (unless he's really dead in the show)
3. She was so angered that Adar rightly told her that if she wanted to see the heir of Morgoth, she only had to look in a mirror
4. Even without Adar pointing that out, the quote about the fate of Uruk is enough to put her in the villain side of the story
5. She proposes to travel thousands of miles on horseback with a fatally wounded person without putting him on a cart (thanks Eru it was Sauron and not a mere Southerner...)
6. She fumbles the opportunity to warn everyone about Sauron, sure "he left" but she should have asked for guards to scout the area and kill him on sight and sound the alarm immediately...
7. When she's put on a ship toward the ultimate mental healthcare institute (Valinor) she tries to commit suicide instead of accepting help.

This is a bleak depiction, but one that doesn't jive with her being the main protagonist of the show to be so emotionally and mentally broken.

 

[Maxperson]

Indeed. If they wanted to show she's conflicted about leaving, there were several ways to do that that were more consistent with the show than have her jump from a ship mid-Atlantic and... swim back home, while all the other elves on the ship just ignore her instead of shouting "elf overboard" and tying to save her by stopping their ship, trying to throw her a rope and so on. I know the scene where she escalates a frozen cliff in the beginning establishes she's strong, but not "divine-like strong", just "heroically strong". Swimming across an ocean as a sensible mode of transportation is a step farther. If it's an act of desperation, it establishes her as clearly nuts. And I feel it may be the case, if we disregard every other source of information.

1. She's been seeing Sauron's influence for millenia without tangible proof
2. She's been so focused on that hatred that she forgot to inquire seriously about the fate of her husband (unless he's really dead in the show)
3. She was so angered that Adar rightly told her that if she wanted to see the heir of Morgoth, she only had to look in a mirror
4. Even without Adar pointing that out, the quote about the fate of Uruk is enough to put her in the villain side of the story
5. She proposes to travel thousands of miles on horseback with a fatally wounded person without putting him on a cart (thanks Eru it was Sauron and not a mere Southerner...)
6. She fumbles the opportunity to warn everyone about Sauron, sure "he left" but she should have asked for guards to scout the area and kill him on sight and sound the alarm immediately...
7. When she's put on a ship toward the ultimate mental healthcare institute (Valinor) she tries to commit suicide instead of accepting help.

This is a bleak depiction, but one that doesn't jive with her being the main protagonist of the show to be so emotionally and mentally broken.

Yep. And to some in this thread, that behavior is picture perfect Tolkien.