Ripping apart the ELH...

[KarinsDad]

Pg. 87: the cost to develop the epic spell, "Superb Dispelling" is entirely too high. It's listed as 3,771,000 gp and 143,640 xp. By my reckoning it should weigh in at 531,000 gp and 21,240 xp.

Now that's a funny error. Plus, the cost is funny even without the error.

I think I once calculated the cost to put all arcane spells from the PHB into spell books and it came out to be something like 300,000+ GP (30 some books).

Hence, that one spell costs more (regardless of calculations) then all of the arcane spells in the core rules combined.

hehehe

I gotta get this book, just to chuckle at it. Mithral Golems made entirely of mithral? Maybe they should call it the Monty Haul Handbook instead.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Penetrate DR can only be taken once. I got the book right here just to make sure there is no confusion.

I see. I could have sworn it said you could take it multiple times... ah well. I'll take it off the list.

 

[Macbrea]

I gotta get this book, just to chuckle at it. Mithral Golems made entirely of mithral? Maybe they should call it the Monty Haul Handbook instead.

Technically, it is made with polymorph any object to get the mithril. So, if you killed the mithril golem would it revert back to iron?

 

[kreynolds]

The cap I'm talking about is BAB - you can't get more than 4 attacks, since the highest BAB possible is 20.

I believe the cap is removed for Improved Manyshot. It states...

Benefits: As Manyshot, but the number of arrows you can fire is limited only by your base attack bonus (two arrows, plus one arrow for every 5 points of base attack bonus above +6).

I believe the "cap" it is referring to is not the cap of 4 attacks per round derived from your BAB. It's referring to the "cap" of 4 attacks from the Manyshot feat, quantified by the flowing statement in the Improved Manyshot description...

Normal: With the Manyshot feat, you are limited to a maximum of four arrows (when your base attack bonus is a +16 or higher).

As you can see, the Manyshot feat specifically limits you to 4 arrows, based upon the limitations of your maximum number of attacks from your BAB. However, Improved Manyshot removes this restriction, by specifically referring to the limitations of Manyshot and stating that there are now no more limits to it.

-- "sherlock" kreynolds --

 

[Wolfen Priest]

I don't want to hijack this thread into a Death to Typos rant, but I 100% disagree. I don't think that it's *in*evitable that there will be mistakes and typos that are *that* obvious. Text-to-tables QC is not rocket science. "Deity" instead of "Character" is a huge mistake that was easy to see, and they missed it. Characters getting abilities at different levels in text and tables should be easy to see, and they missed it.

I agree with you sir. If I pay $40 for a book (roughly the equivalent price of a very technical and sophisticated college textbook, IIRC), then it should at least be free from glaring logical and/or grammatical errors.

I keep hearing that we should expect mistakes from a big publisher like WotC; but hey, 2e didn't have those problems (to the same degree, if at all), as I recall. Also, most 3rd party publishers don't make as many stupid grammar mistakes as WotC does! As a college graduate, I truly find it annoying, and somewhat angering.

 

[Marshall]

The cap I'm talking about is BAB - you can't get more than 4 attacks, since the highest BAB possible is 20.

Its that "epic BAB" thing again.

Your "BAB" keeps increasing at epic levels, you just dont gain extra attacks.

With MS you can get four arrows per attack(at -8 BAB)
With IMS that number is only limited by your "EpicBAB"

As to the Golems, One piece at a time...

 

[kreynolds]

If I pay $40 for a book (roughly the equivalent price of a very technical and sophisticated college textbook, IIRC), then it should at least be free from glaring logical and/or grammatical errors.

A "technical" and "sophisticated" college textbook will run you upwards of $70 to $150, easy. That's the price for new books, not used, and the books we buy from WotC are new, not used. So, yeah, I would expect a college textbook to be pretty free of errors, but it better be because I just paid out the <bleep!> for it.

I'm not making excuses. I just don't think you can compare an RPG book to a college textbook. A hell of a lot more work went into the college textbook, but for obvious reasons.

 

[KarinsDad]

A "technical" and "sophisticated" college textbook will run you upwards of $70 to $150, easy. That's the price for new books, not used, and the books we buy from WotC are new, not used. So, yeah, I would expect a college textbook to be pretty free of errors, but it better be because I just paid out the <bleep!> for it.

I'm not making excuses. I just don't think you can compare an RPG book to a college textbook. A hell of a lot more work went into the college textbook, but for obvious reasons.

Err, yeah, right.

College text books do not sell 4,000,000 copies (talking PHB here). In fact, they are usually lucky to sell 100,000 copies (and usually nowhere near that).

The reason college text books are so expensive is:

1) They can get away with higher prices due to the fact that students HAVE to buy the books.

2) They sell fewer copies per book than mainstream books or top selling RPG books, so they have to sell them for more to be profitable. Same as a paperback novel going for $6 and a much smaller RPG module going for $20. The more you can sell, the lower the production/distribution cost per book, the lower you can make the price, the more you can sell.

Assuming that college text books cost so much is because the original authors take greater care in making it right (i.e. put more work into it) sounds fallacious. Nothing stops WotC from taking greater care in their books.


The bottom line is that other 3E companies do a better job than WotC with editing. How can these tiny companies do that? They are more due diligent.

 

[KarinsDad]

Technically, it is made with polymorph any object to get the mithril. So, if you killed the mithril golem would it revert back to iron?

Does it explicitly state that the Polymorph Any Object spell is what changes it to mithril?

From the PAO spell:

"This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, and platinum."

Sounds like you have to make it out of mithril first before casting the spell, in which case it would revert back to a pile of mithril and still be extremely valuable.

Either that, or they have another error in that the PAO is explicitly prevented from changing anything to mithril, but they used it for that anyway.

 

[kreynolds]

Err, yeah, right.

Glad you agree.

College text books do not sell 4,000,000 copies (talking PHB here). In fact, they are usually lucky to sell 100,000 copies (and usually nowhere near that)...<snip>...Assuming that college text books cost so much is because the original authors take greater care in making it right (i.e. put more work into it) sounds fallacious.

Do you always blow this smoke outta your <bleep!>. I didn't realize you were/are a college bookstore inventory control manager. Well. That explains a lot.

Look, I don't have a problem with you having a different opinion, but I do have a problem with you behaving like a jerk simply because I have a different opinion than yours. Grow up, would ya'?

Anyways, I do agree/disagree with one of your points though. Those smaller 3rd edition publishers you mentioned are indeed much better about proofreading their products, and catching the mistakes. However, I doubt many of those smaller companies put out near as many products per year.

However, I agree with you in that a smaller company will no doubt work much harder and more diligently to make sure that their products are error free. When that company gets big, it also gets fat, and lazy, ala WotC (in some respects).