Rogues and magical traps

[Palskane]

A debate is raging in another forum that I visit about rogues and magical traps. One argument is that, unless a magical trap leaves some physical evidence, then the rogue simply has no way to know it is there, thus negating his chance to disarm it.

The other argument is to go with the rules as written and allow the rogue to find and disarm purely magical traps, albeit with a fairly high DC.

The argument centers around casters, with Detect and Dispel Magic, excel over the Rogues at finding and bypassing magical traps.

All of this assumes that the rogue does not have access to items/magic which may allow him to detect a purely magical trap.

I am curious to see what opinions people here have as well.

 

[kmdietri]

In my opinion I'd stick with the rules. If not then at higher levels when your facing almost all magical traps the rogue would lose, or at least be severely limited in, one of their best abilities.

That said I'd still let Wiz/Sorc with detect and dispel magics a chance to bypass it.

 

[Trellian]

I think the DC is 20 or 25 + the spell level... must be 25 I think... still fairly difficult to find for a rogue, so a spellcaster certainly has the best chance of finding it. Most wizards stack up a few detect magic spells anyway.

 

[theridion]

i don't have a phb ready, but i believe magic traps merely have a high search DC required... i'd allow a rogue to detect one. figuring if they could disarm it, they'd have to be able to find it, right?

wards might be a little different, of course, and it depends on the spell, but most magic traps leave a sort of "essense" and when a rogue is focused and skilled in feeling out locks and mechanical devices, you could easily say that they detect the magic trap...

now, you probably wouldn't detect a magic trap that was a "pressure plate" type below the chest or a glyph on a wall, but your standard triggered spell on the chest wouldn't be a stretch.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I think it all depends on how you envision a magical trap.

If you see a magical trap as being invisible, save for a trace of magic that can be picked up by detect magic and removed by dispel magic then I can see people arguing that a rogue simply cannot notice or disarm it. On the other hand, looking at a rogue's other skills such as uncanny dodge and improved evasion one might also argue that a rogue has a certain 'sixth sense' regarding danger. And looking at the rogue ability 'use magic device' one might argue that a rogue has a special way in which he can impose his will on things of magic. Taking these two together, it doesn't seem unbelievable that a rogue could sense an invisible magical trap, and know the right 'mental trick' to foul up the magic.

The second option is to see a magical trap as necessarily having a physical component. Perhaps a sigil is disguised in a complex pattern of lines on the ceiling. Perhaps the floor is made of a special kind of stone which can accept magical conditioning. Perhaps the torch in a wall-sconce burns a slightly peculiar color due to the magic it holds. The rogue is adept at spotting these signs, and knows how to disrupt them by modifying the sigil / covering the stone / adding a special oil to the flame.

Either way, I'd play it by the books. It's a large part of the rogues' usefulness. It's where they shine. Wizards have polymorph and fireball to make them special.

 

[FANGO]

Rogues should absolutely be able to find and disarm magical traps. In D&D, rogues have always had a slight amount of magical ability. They may not be able to cast spells, but they've always been able to read from scrolls, use wands, etc. etc. This extends into being able to find magical traps. Even if your magical traps leave no special evidence, there ought to be a way for rogues to find them. Be it a sixth sense with the hairs raising on the back of their neck, seeing small disturbances in the air, seeing glyphs on the walls or even just having the general feeling that 'something's up'...they definitely should have some way of finding a trap. It's not easy, but that's what they do and why they have lots of skill points.

Also, remember that abjuration spells within 20 feet of each other (or something like that) make visible fluctuations, making the DC like 4 easier (which is more evidence to show that magic should be treated as having slight visible signals).

 

[Hypersmurf]

And looking at the rogue ability 'use magic device' one might argue that a rogue has a special way in which he can impose his will on things of magic. Taking these two together, it doesn't seem unbelievable that a rogue could sense an invisible magical trap, and know the right 'mental trick' to foul up the magic.

Ooh - anyone read Steven Brust's Orca, from the Vlad Taltos series?

There's a scene with Kiera the Thief breaking into a place full of magic wards and alarms. It's cool.

-Hyp.

 

[shilsen]

I always just go with the rules. That's one of the rogue's primary abilities, so why take it away suddenly? And I don't think it needs any particular justification (although some of the ones posted above are pretty good). This is D&D realism, after all, not real-world realism.

 

[RObiN-HoOD]

Can you please tell me the URL of the original forum that this message was posted?