Rogues and rolling all the dice

[aco175]

The backstab power is powerful and cool, but it is the only thing rogues have basically. Fighters get more than one attack, unless you have 2-weapon fighting, but then fighters can have 3 attacks. I tend to find in may party and games that the thief hits less than the fighter but does more damage when he can backstab. We play with flanking rules, so that is most of the time, but the fighter hits more times.

The doubling of the dice is only on a critical, which is a lot less than the fighter if they take the path with crits on 19-20. At 5th level they both seem about fair and settle into their own niche.

 

[Darren Campbell]

I have been adding an extra foe for that one that the rogue will most likely take out. As well as putting some further back and charging into action when combat starts so that he just doesn't get one shot/kill and bonus action to attack on another nearby foe.

I'm also still a little confused on how many actual dice he gets to roll for damage. Aside from the D20 for attack rolls, I think he's rolling like 6 or 7 dice (his sword also has a D6 force damage)

 

[AkaKageWarrior]

Preparation is key to keep the game flowing.
It drives me nuts when players start to collect dice when it's their turn, they can do that in advance easily on the others' turns.

So the fireball throwing wizard should have 8d6 (or at least 4d6) at hand before his turn starts, same goes for the rogue with weapon + sneak dice.

Edit:
And averaging is practical but boring.
It's so nice when your 8d6 fireball blasts everything for 40+ damage, or so fatal when you need the damage and it does less than 15...

 

[Darren Campbell]

I meant for the Rogue though.

sword: 1d6
sword force damage: 1d6
sneak attack: 2d6

if he crits, which dice (or all of them) gets bonus dice?

 

[Ancalagon]

I meant for the Rogue though.

sword: 1d6
sword force damage: 1d6
sneak attack: 2d6

if he crits, which dice (or all of them) gets bonus dice?

All of them.

I do have a question: force damage?

 

[Oofta]

I meant for the Rogue though.

sword: 1d6
sword force damage: 1d6
sneak attack: 2d6

if he crits, which dice (or all of them) gets bonus dice?

[EDIT: I goofed on my answer. You get advantage (and hence sneak attack) for striking before the target has acted. You get an automatic critical only if they are also surprised]

If you crit you always reroll all dice. An assassin has a special ability that if they go before someone else it's always at advantage and always considered a critical and is a critical if the target is also surprised. So for an assassin with a shortsword, it would be 1d6 weapon, 2d6 sneak (which they get because they have advantage) and 1d6 force. So with sneak attack but no critical 4d6, with the critical 8d6.

Which yes, is powerful but it's only 1 turn and 1 attack. At 5th level the fighter will be able to do two attacks per round, or four attacks per round with an action surge. Throw in battle master and you can also add in a superiority die or two.

The assassin is slightly more powerful than other classes at that specific level, others will catch up or have different capabilities. Just wait until you have a monk running around stunning everything if you think the assassin is annoying.

 

[Darren Campbell]

The sword does +5 force damage. It was part of the start of the campaign where the party had nothing to start the game with. Its a sword that will at some point go away.

 

[Darren Campbell]

Thanks Oofta. That helps clarify how many dice the rogue is rolling. If the Rogue gets dual wielding, only one attack gets the bonus of ability and proficiency, and does not gain the sneak attacks and crits though right?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

An assassin has a special ability that if they go before someone else it's always at advantage and always considered a critical.

Hold up. The assassin ability has two parts. If they act on the first turn before an enemy, they get advantage. But they only get an auto-crit if the enemy is surprised.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Thanks Oofta. That helps clarify how many dice the rogue is rolling. If the Rogue gets dual wielding, only one attack gets the bonus of ability and proficiency, and does not gain the sneak attacks and crits though right?

The rule for two-weapon fighting is on PHB p. 195. "You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack..." (You never add proficiency to the damage of an attack.)

The rule for Sneak Attack is on p. 96. "Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack..." This means if you make multiple attacks, you can only deal the bonus damage with one of them. However, the ability does not care which attack deals the damage, so if you miss with the first attack, you can still deal the damage with the second one.

The rule for Assassinate is on p. 97. "...any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit." There is no "once per turn" limit here, so if you hit with both attacks, both are critical hits. However, since only one of the hits deals Sneak Attack damage, the second critical hit with be a lot smaller.