Engilbrand
First Post
Golems aren't immune to spells. They are immune to spells which allow SR. The Orb spells don't. That's why Orbs are good at taking down Golems.
Rogues vs undead, elementals, golems, etc.
- Thread starter mcgeedis
- Start date
Ridley's Cohort
First Post
evilbob's suggestions are good.
Remember that Aid Other plus Flanking means one of your allies gets a net +4 to hit. Is the Vampire really going to bother attacking you when you are not doing damage? Maybe. But you will not be very high on his list of priorities.
There are lots of things that can be done with UMD and wands/scrolls. Many many of them are not direct attacks.
I cannot count how many times that my Paladin has thought "I have this useful little buff spell, but I am too busy to spend an Action to cast it", and he has a small sliver of the number of options that a real spellcaster would have. Cherry-picking low levels from the arcane and divine spell lists will yield a very large number of options.
A wand of Grease is a great option for that reason. Sure it is DC 11, but that is a 5%-15% of really annoying even higher level opponents.
Remember that Aid Other plus Flanking means one of your allies gets a net +4 to hit. Is the Vampire really going to bother attacking you when you are not doing damage? Maybe. But you will not be very high on his list of priorities.
There are lots of things that can be done with UMD and wands/scrolls. Many many of them are not direct attacks.
I cannot count how many times that my Paladin has thought "I have this useful little buff spell, but I am too busy to spend an Action to cast it", and he has a small sliver of the number of options that a real spellcaster would have. Cherry-picking low levels from the arcane and divine spell lists will yield a very large number of options.
A wand of Grease is a great option for that reason. Sure it is DC 11, but that is a 5%-15% of really annoying even higher level opponents.
TheGogmagog
First Post
I like to use magic device of scroll/wands of 'snakes swiftness' (1st level druid, 2nd level wizard). One fighter attack is worth more than two Rogue-bab attacks.
If you have more front line fighters then mass snakes swiftness.
Aid another, flanking, fighting defensively and taunting are also good suggestions if the magic shops arn't stocked up on scribed druid spells.
If you have more front line fighters then mass snakes swiftness.
Aid another, flanking, fighting defensively and taunting are also good suggestions if the magic shops arn't stocked up on scribed druid spells.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
There are two items in the Magic Item Compendium that solve for most of this issue.
Both are a new kind of magic item called "Weapon Crystals". A weapon crystal is a magical crystal that can be attached to a new magic item slot - on the weapon itself. It can be affixed I believe as a move action, and removed as another move action. You can of course carry more than one, swapping them out whenever necessary.
One of these weapon crystals lets you sneak attack undead (and I believe it also adds the Ghost Touch ability, and +1d6 damage, vs. undead). I believe it costs 10,000 gp.
The second of these weapon crystals lets you sneak attack constructs (and I believe it acts like adamantine for purposes of bypassing the DR of constructs, and something else minor). I think it costs 6,000 gp.
Those two items will cover most situations. You just swap out the crystal you need at the time, and there you go.
Of course it doesn't help with things like oozes and slimes and some elementals and such. But, it does cover probably more than 50% of the challenges that ordinarily restrict sneak attack.
Both are a new kind of magic item called "Weapon Crystals". A weapon crystal is a magical crystal that can be attached to a new magic item slot - on the weapon itself. It can be affixed I believe as a move action, and removed as another move action. You can of course carry more than one, swapping them out whenever necessary.
One of these weapon crystals lets you sneak attack undead (and I believe it also adds the Ghost Touch ability, and +1d6 damage, vs. undead). I believe it costs 10,000 gp.
The second of these weapon crystals lets you sneak attack constructs (and I believe it acts like adamantine for purposes of bypassing the DR of constructs, and something else minor). I think it costs 6,000 gp.
Those two items will cover most situations. You just swap out the crystal you need at the time, and there you go.
Of course it doesn't help with things like oozes and slimes and some elementals and such. But, it does cover probably more than 50% of the challenges that ordinarily restrict sneak attack.
rgard
Adventurer
mcgeedis said:
If you know the campaign will be heavy on non-sneak attackable critters, you can try the variant martial rogue in UA. You give up sneak attack for the fighter bonus feat progression. You can then focus on fighter feats that will enhance your melee abilitiy.
The variant is fun even if there aren't lots of undead and golems. Makes a great dip for a fighter who likes to fight while lightly armored.
Thanks,
Rich
I agree it's a little cheesy to add equipment that lets the rogue sneak attack everything. It's not the intention of the ability. That being said, it's a major class feature and a real downer when you can't use it. If the rogue is determined to be in melee and wants to consistently deal effective damage I'd look at abilities that overcome DR. Just about everything that can't be sneak attacked has DR so if your Rogue has that, he is still effective.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
backbeat said:
Usually calling something cheesy and not the intention of the ability is reserved for loopholes int he rules and strange intpretations or odd and unexpected combinations.
That is not the case here. It is the intent of WOTC, who wrote the new equipment and the rules to begin with, that rogues be able to buy or make or find equipment that can shore up these problems if they choose to do so sometimes for some things. I don't find it cheesy, and I definitely don't think it's "not the intent" given who published these items and their obvious purpose (they give you sneak attack against something, and hence only things that have the sneak attack abilty gain that benefit - so we know for sure what classes it was intended for).
Nor does it let you sneak attack everything. Just some things, depending on the item. No combination that I know of would let you sneak attack everything.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I agree with backbeat and still consider it cheesy too - WotC may have introduced it in a subsequent book, but that doesn't do anything to reduce cheesiness in my opinion!
Some supplements work within established bounds, other supplements step beyond those bounds into cheese-land by introducing new things which trump established abilities. What's next - amulets of piercing mind blank, the must-have item for all enchanters?
Some supplements work within established bounds, other supplements step beyond those bounds into cheese-land by introducing new things which trump established abilities. What's next - amulets of piercing mind blank, the must-have item for all enchanters?
Some options to 'toss around'*:mcgeedis said:
1) Tanglefoot bags
2) Instant fortress
3) Tan bag of tricks
4) Spell-storing weapons
5) Before the adventure: sneak into a church and toss dust of dryness into a big vat of holy water. Keep the resulting pellet around to lob at an undead BBEG.
* Could have synergy with rapid shot and/or TWF'ing.
pawsplay
Hero
mcgeedis said:
wands of grease
tanglefoot bags
golembane scarabs
morningstars made of special materials
aid an attack roll
trip
wands of acid arrow
wield a weapon in two hands + power attack
provide cover for spellcasters from reach attacks
ready an action to interrupt,trip, or attack
weapons with elemental damage or other special damage types
use entangling weapons (even with a non proficiency penalty, touch attacks are pretty easy to make)
use two weapon fighting like you mean it (but perhaps defensively)
bull rush
etc
