Rogues with daggers

[Demoquin]

I playing pnp D&D for the first time and i made an Elven Rogue that duel wields daggers. At 3rd lvl i took weapon finesse dagger and duelwield. I have 14 str 18 dex and an a AB of +6 (+4 duelwielding)

My point is this .. i seem to be doing the least amount of damage possible, unless i have my 2d6 sneak attacks. Is there a way or can someone point out how to increase the damage on my attacks. I want to take the Asssassin class and possibly the Shadowdancer class as it seems interesting. Or i could drop SD and take fighter for Wep Spec Dagger to add some damage that way.

Could i just tumble around a target so i could always get a sneak attack? What would you do if you have a duel wielder rogue?

Also .. how realistic is the damage associated by a dagger anyway? I mean if you aim for the throat of the victim .. i still only get a d4+2. When in real life that would kill whoever it was .. even the Govenator.

 

[Crothian]

as a rogue get in position to flank, you get sneak attack damage on all your attacks and you willtear up the opponent.

D&D is really not reaslistic so don't think too hard on daggers and damage. (plus most of us only have 1d4 HP anyway so a dagger strike would be deadly. and a hit to the throat in game terms is a critical hit)

edit: welcome to the boards!!!

 

[Psychic Warrior]

Hello and welcome to the boards! Glad to see a new face.

Dagger dual wielding is a tough one to maximize. My first inclination is to tell you to get some keen +1 daggers to up the crit range and damge potential. Tumbling into position for a flank attack is a good tactic as is feinting your foe to make him flat footed (thereby you will get your sneak attack damage). Max out your bluff skill and get the feat Improved Feint. A Rogue player in one of my games has this combo and regularly gets his sneak attack damage (when he isn't fighting contructs and undead that is! ). Fighter is a natural multi class option and will give you access to some very potent fighter bonus feats (weapon specialization being the biggie but also improved two weapon fighting and the dodge-mobility-spring attack chain). Keep your self as a 'hit and run' melee specialist and make sure you are in position to feint or flank and your damage pontential will be right in line with most fighters.

 

[MerricB]

Could i just tumble around a target so i could always get a sneak attack?

Also .. how realistic is the damage associated by a dagger anyway? I mean if you aim for the throat of the victim .. i still only get a d4+2. When in real life that would kill whoever it was .. even the Govenator.

In fact, d4+2 damage will kill your normal human (d4 hit points) just fine. The trick is that D&D deals with heroic fantasy, and so even a greatsword takes several swings to kill a hero.

###

With regard to how to play a dual-wielding rogue with daggers: yes, you need to find a way of sneak attacking as much as possible.

The drawback you have is that you can only move 5 feet and make a full attack with both daggers, so the initial round will only give you one attack as you move into position.

On the other hand, dual daggers is a worthwhile strategy to pursue.

My recommendations:
* Yes, Tumble is the way to go. First round you should Tumble into a flanking position, the next round the attacks should start.

* Enhancing your daggers with flaming and frost will significantly enhance your damage. d4+2 plus d6 fire damage is rather useful. Although it still palls in comparison to the bonuses you can get from Sneak Attack, neither should it be dismissed (especially against opponents that are immune to SA).

* Invisibility allows you to sneak attack as well. Either get friendly with the party wizard, or invest in some potions or scrolls.

* Levels in Fighter are a fine idea, especially for the bonus feats. However, just be aware that you're now no longer really playing a Rogue character, but instead a Fighter with some skills. The tactics are somewhat different. The benefits of having two daggers and Weapon Specialisation are very good indeed.

Cheers!

 

[Ahzad]

I playing pnp D&D for the first time and i made an Elven Rogue that duel wields daggers. At 3rd lvl i took weapon finesse dagger and duelwield. I have 14 str 18 dex and an a AB of +6 (+4 duelwielding)

My point is this .. i seem to be doing the least amount of damage possible, unless i have my 2d6 sneak attacks. Is there a way or can someone point out how to increase the damage on my attacks. I want to take the Asssassin class and possibly the Shadowdancer class as it seems interesting. Or i could drop SD and take fighter for Wep Spec Dagger to add some damage that way.

Could i just tumble around a target so i could always get a sneak attack? What would you do if you have a duel wielder rogue?

Also .. how realistic is the damage associated by a dagger anyway? I mean if you aim for the throat of the victim .. i still only get a d4+2. When in real life that would kill whoever it was .. even the Govenator.

If your dm would allow it i'd look into the Invisible Blade prc, or the Daggerspell Mages or Shapers out of the Complete Adventurer.

 

[Imperialus]

Rouge's are never the sort that do much damage, unless you do get sneak attacks in. Tumbleing and bluffing are the best ways to get sneak attacks in. Acrobats can make for very powerful combat rogues tumbling circles around their opponants and poking them in the back.

As for damage, no damage in D&D is realistic. I mean according to the D&D rules I could walk up to a 10th level fighter with a greatsword and smack him between the eyes with it and still not kill him. How you interpret hitpoints is up to you. Perhaps they represent luck that gets diminished over time untill that last dagger does happen to connect with your throat. Or it could be that higher HP characters are simply more adept at dodging blows than their novice counterparts.

the logic behind not being able to aim for someones throat is simply a game ballance issue. After all if at the end of an epic campaign someone kills the BBEG in a single blow simply by saying "I aim for his throat" and then argueing that because it is more realistic he should be dead then I don't know about you but I'd feel pretty robbed.

 

[VirgilCaine]

* Enhancing your daggers with flaming and frost will significantly enhance your damage. d4+2 plus d6 fire damage is rather useful. Although it still palls in comparison to the bonuses you can get from Sneak Attack, neither should it be dismissed (especially against opponents that are immune to SA).

* Invisibility allows you to sneak attack as well. Either get friendly with the party wizard, or invest in some potions or scrolls.

Enhancing your daggers with poison is also a good idea--and cheaper. Talk to your DM about finding some blue whinnis or some other kind of soporific or paralytic or at least something that isn't based on Con damage.

If you have at least a 10 Charisma, put ranks in Use Magic Device so you can use scrolls and wands to supplement/complement your sneak attacks. Use a wand of acid arrow or magic missile when you don't want to get close to the enemy--like creatures immune to crits (and thus sneak attacks), allowing you to deal some damage.

 

[Darthjaye]

Basically, the way I figure the hit points vs "hit location" work is this; You may want and say your trying to hit the throat but with D&D you dance around for 6 seconds, and if you hit, you don't hit what you intended too unless you kill the target (either in one shot or with your last strike). Calling where you hit the target is just for flavor, and if your inventive enough in your style and how you get there maybe your GM should entertain extra XP's for working at flavor beyond just "I rolled a .....".

As for your Rogue, yeah go with levels of fighter, but max it at 4 and go the rest Rogue all the way until you qualify for Assassin and/or Shadowdancer. Get's you up to Weapon Specialization and gives you some decent HP's.

 

[Darkness]

As for your Rogue, yeah go with levels of fighter, but max it at 4 and go the rest Rogue all the way until you qualify for Assassin ...

Agreed, Fighter is good. My favorite way to qualify for Assassin is Rog3/Ftr2. The bonus feats also definitely help a lot if you want to qualify for Shadowdancer. (Rog3/Ftr4/Shd, maybe?)

 

[Zappo]

I'm playing a dual-wielding character too. The idea for this one is that he won't specialize in any one weapon, so that he can use whatever comes his way. Which means no weapon focus, no weapon specialization, and no improved critical.

As a result, I usually deal pitiful damage in a straight-up fight, on the order of 1d6+1. However, sometimes I get to sneak attack. And I have +4d6 sneak attack, and four attacks.

Even with Tumble, it is very difficult to be able to get a full sneak attack. You can't move more than 5 feet and do a full attack, so you need to be already in position or nearly there at the beginning of your round, which means that the enemy generally gets one round to move away. To this, you've got to add constructs, plants, undead, oozes, other rogues (can't sneak attack them unless you're much higher in level), and creatures that are so big that you can't reach their vitals.

When it does work, however, it really hurts.