Role Features... Controller left out?

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The Wizard's AoEs are also consistently more efficient.

But maybe we're talking about two different ideas of controller here.

From my perspective a penalty to saves isn't all that much of a controller aspect as well. Inflicting status effects might be one flavor to a controller but the only important mechanic is the capability to efficiently do damage to a number of targets in the same round, in return for a lack of defenses.

 

[Zerakon]

Maybe I do misunderstand 4e balance. It just seems hard to believe that the wizards powers aren't supposed to be more powerful than the fighters' powers (for example), (a) considering the fighter gets better armor, weapons, etc. and (b) just eyeballing the powers, the wizards look more powerful. I say this after only having received my books yesterday, so I'm still reading.

 

[Zsig]

I see your point Keterys.

All roles follow this sort of pattern:

-Challenge (which leads to marking targets and additional effects)

-Strikers get single target damage buffs, either conditional (sneak attack) or unconditional but least aggravating (warlock's curse, hunter's quarry)

-Healing/Inspiring Word for leaders, which works exactly the same way for both leaders (I'd expect the bard to have one "Healing Song/Chord" or some such with exact same mechanics as well).

But then when it comes to Controllers, nothing in the Wizard seems to be a "pattern" as a standard feature. But as weird as it sounds that right there could be the Controllers thing. Being totally different one from another, as long as they fulfill their role.

 

[AMP Productions]

Hmm... So someone mentioned that the feywild warlock was a little controller-ish... what about the Ranged Ranger?

area attacks, done at ranges far greater then even the wizard. (40 squares if you are using a longbow and take the penality for shooting far.) Massive damage, and enough movement hampering effects to stop a tarrasque (if he fails his saves that is.)

Try comparing the wizard to that and see if you can find the features of a standard controller, or at least what they should be.

-Rob

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

How do you control the battlefield?

By attacking large areas. And that's really the realm of powers.

What kind of class features could do that? Most likely broken ones. The wizard class features are useful and plentyful, that's all you need for balance.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Hmm... So someone mentioned that the feywild warlock was a little controller-ish... what about the Ranged Ranger?

area attacks, done at ranges far greater then even the wizard. (40 squares if you are using a longbow and take the penality for shooting far.) Massive damage, and enough movement hampering effects to stop a tarrasque (if he fails his saves that is.)

Try comparing the wizard to that and see if you can find the features of a standard controller, or at least what they should be.

-Rob

You seem to misunderstand what a controlle does. The fey pact warlock is the least 'controller' of all the warlock. There is only one charisma based warlock power that can target more than one creature and it's the Fey paragon path level 20 daily.

Similarly, the ranged ranger is the least 'controller' of the ranger. Most ranger powers that target more than one creature are TWF powers. Neither are much good at it but the TWF has handful of burst 1 effect where he can target everyone around him.

A striker role is to target one creature, preferably a powerful one, and get it out of the fight swiftly. You can do this with pure damage (to kill him fast) or with special effect (To make him ineffective). The fey warlock is less agressive at damage dealing and stronger on special effects so his targets tend to live a little longer but are much less dangerous as long he hits them. The result is the same ; he's engaging one bad guy and screwing with him thoroughly. He's a striker.

The wizard role is to engage as many creatures at the same time as possible. In a large melee, the wizard typically deals the most damage to the opposition if you bother to kept track of such things. A level 1 wizard catching 4 critters in a burning hand could spread out as much as 8D6+20 damage to the enemies. Who can do better? He's a controller : he does crowd control. At his point in 4e, nobody else does it like the wizard.

 

[Simm]

How do you control the battlefield?

By attacking large areas. And that's really the realm of powers.

I have to disagree with this. The role for dealing ranged damage over large areas is called artillery. It's a monster only role because it is very limited. The battle field is controlled by creating effects that hinder and disrupt the enemy.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I have to disagree with this. The role for dealing ranged damage over large areas is called artillery. It's a monster only role because it is very limited. The battle field is controlled by creating effects that hinder and disrupt the enemy.

That is your opinion but as far as what 4e means by controller, you are wrong.

PHB P.16 : Controllers deal with large numbers of enemies at the
same time. They favor offense over defense, using powers
that deal damage to multiple foes at once, as well as subtler
powers that weaken, confuse, or delay their foes.

A blunt fireball or a less damaging but dazing color spray ; these are the hallmark of a controller.

Concerning artillery ; Some of these monsters have area effects but most don't. All archer monsters are considered artillery for example and they have no area effect, such as the hobgoblin archer.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the thing that signifies a controller hitting multiple foes, creating terrain, and causing conditions. Controllers are the only ones that will most likely get them as at will powers. Controllers are the only ones that will be able to effect a foe's save roll too. A controller's job to mess up enemy tactics either by encouraging them to scatter (AOE), discouraging movement (walls, fogs, difficult terrain), or exploiting weaknesses (conditions).

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

I think the thing that signifies a controller, creating terrain, and causing conditions.

If by creating terrain you mean being able to create zone ; yes, they have a handful of those, more than anyone else. But you could easily reach a high level without a single one of those powers. Rigth at level 1 you could have Icy terrain and Freezing cloud that fit the bill but these powers face stiff competition from the other powers and the wizard in my campaign has no such effect at this point. So I don't see that as being a defining feature.

Simply causing conditions ; All class can do it, one in particular even more routinely than the wizard; The fey warlock causes a condition for just about all his powers, some of them being particularly wicked, even worse than what the wizard can inflict.

But causing conditions on many opponents at once tough, that's less common.

It always comes back to engaging many enemies at once. Area effect. The wizard is really unique in that respect.