Roman Bloodline?

Last known Ptolemy descendents ruled Mauritius for few years post Cleopatra.

Think they were deposed early 1st century as client Kingdom became province.

Alot of Ronan adjacent kingdoms succession wasn't that reliable due to strongman basically. Feudalism was generally an improvement.
They were deposed, but Drusila (Mark Antony and Cleopatra's great-granddaughter) married twice to Roman families. Unfortunately any children are not recorded, but the probability is pretty good. Anyone from pre-100 AD is likely to have either no descendants or lots of descendants.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
They were deposed, but Drusila (Mark Antony and Cleopatra's great-granddaughter) married twice to Roman families. Unfortunately any children are not recorded, but the probability is pretty good. Anyone from pre-100 AD is likely to have either no descendants or lots of descendants.

Didn't know that cheers. Just rewatched HBOs Rome .
 

Kaodi

Hero
The other thing to remember is that only matrilineal family lines are (mostly) guaranteed to be accurate. The odds of no infidelity over a period of 1,000 years are about nil.
 

For Westerners, proving ancestry beyond someone like Charlemagne is practically impossible, due to a variety of factors

1) Break down in civil society in the west, which leads to poor genealogical records after the Crisis of the Third Century (even before any Dark Ages in Europe things are getting dicey)

2) The rise of dynasties in Constantinople not biologically connected to previous dynasties. Until the Macedonian dynasty comes to power there's a period of crisis in the east which leads to a lot of strongmen who are not related to the earlier Emperors by blood.

After the 9th century things get easier - Charlemagne (and his direct male ancestors) has a very well-documented family tree, and after the 11th century the Emperors of Constantinople start marrying families in western Europe so thing get easier.

I think in my own research I was able to trace back one line to Arnuf of Metz (but his connected to Charlemagne is not universally accepted), so Arnulf's purported son, Ansegisel is probably a better bet.

Any connection between the Carolingians and the Merovingians is purely speculative, as is any attempts to link the rulers of the Roman rump state of Soissons to Frankish dynasties.

The most reliable long ancestry of the world is probably the descendants of Confucious. The ancestry of the Japanese emperor is generally only trusted up to a certain point.

Are at least a third of people in East Asia related to Ghangis Khan?
 



S'mon

Legend
The other thing to remember is that only matrilineal family lines are (mostly) guaranteed to be accurate. The odds of no infidelity over a period of 1,000 years are about nil.

AIR a study, I think from England over several centuries, false paternity rates were pretty consistently around 2%, lower than most people expect I think. So 40 generations could still well have true male line descent. Different marriage & family structures will likely give different results though.
 

I remember looking into this at some point (I was a classics major who then got a history MA focusing on Medieval and Early Modern Europe, so it kind of went with the territory). I think I recall that there is a claim that the British royal family can trace lineage back to a specific Roman senator, and I'm sure various noble families make comparable claims, but at the end of the day there simply aren't any reliable supports for the claims, and they are exactly the sort of pseudohistorical claims a scholarly courtier creating a genealogy to flatter some noble or monarch would have embellished or invented, and exactly the sort that they almost could not possibly have found reliable documentary evidence for.

What I can say, is that the Roman nobility, to which most of the most famous Romans belonged, disproportionately died out. It was a society that had wealth qualifications for nobility, looked down upon making money by any means other than inherited wealth, and divided estates equally amongst children. Thus noble families seem to have typically tried to confine themselves to one or two children, lest the estate be divided up too far to maintain noble status, but in a pre-modern society where people often die unexpectedly and medicine can do little for infertility it's only a matter of so many generations until that strategy reaches a dead-end.

Practically everyone with an ounce of European blood probably has some ancient Roman ancestors at this point, but disproportionately few famous Romans have living descendants.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I remember looking into this at some point (I was a classics major who then got a history MA focusing on Medieval and Early Modern Europe, so it kind of went with the territory). I think I recall that there is a claim that the British royal family can trace lineage back to a specific Roman senator, and I'm sure various noble families make comparable claims, but at the end of the day there simply aren't any reliable supports for the claims, and they are exactly the sort of pseudohistorical claims a scholarly courtier creating a genealogy to flatter some noble or monarch would have embellished or invented, and exactly the sort that they almost could not possibly have found reliable documentary evidence for.

What I can say, is that the Roman nobility, to which most of the most famous Romans belonged, disproportionately died out. It was a society that had wealth qualifications for nobility, looked down upon making money by any means other than inherited wealth, and divided estates equally amongst children. Thus noble families seem to have typically tried to confine themselves to one or two children, lest the estate be divided up too far to maintain noble status, but in a pre-modern society where people often die unexpectedly and medicine can do little for infertility it's only a matter of so many generations until that strategy reaches a dead-end.

Practically everyone with an ounce of European blood probably has some ancient Roman ancestors at this point, but disproportionately few famous Romans have living descendants.

Various Emperors thinned out the noble families as well.
 

I remember looking into this at some point (I was a classics major who then got a history MA focusing on Medieval and Early Modern Europe, so it kind of went with the territory). I think I recall that there is a claim that the British royal family can trace lineage back to a specific Roman senator, and I'm sure various noble families make comparable claims, but at the end of the day there simply aren't any reliable supports for the claims, and they are exactly the sort of pseudohistorical claims a scholarly courtier creating a genealogy to flatter some noble or monarch would have embellished or invented, and exactly the sort that they almost could not possibly have found reliable documentary evidence for.

What I can say, is that the Roman nobility, to which most of the most famous Romans belonged, disproportionately died out. It was a society that had wealth qualifications for nobility, looked down upon making money by any means other than inherited wealth, and divided estates equally amongst children. Thus noble families seem to have typically tried to confine themselves to one or two children, lest the estate be divided up too far to maintain noble status, but in a pre-modern society where people often die unexpectedly and medicine can do little for infertility it's only a matter of so many generations until that strategy reaches a dead-end.

Practically everyone with an ounce of European blood probably has some ancient Roman ancestors at this point, but disproportionately few famous Romans have living descendants.
I think the purported Roman “Senator”ancestor is Syragius, ruler of the rump state of Soissons, but as stated, that requires a highly speculative Syragius -> Merovingians -> Carolingian link. All European royalty can be unquestionably linked back to Charles Martel, beyond that take with a huge pinch of salt.

It’s not much better outside of Europe, the King of Jordan claims direct descent from Muhammad’s daughter, but even that descent has some dodgy links.

I think the medieval rulers of Bulgaria claimed descent from Atilla.
 

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