Romantic Angst and D&D

[LostSoul]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Love Triangles & Bulls in an Emotional China Shoppe

Love just is, without much to explain it. [/hijack]

You think so? I think you can explain it just like guilt or something like that. An example: I feel guilty because my mom died. Why? Well, I think that if I could have been more "successful", in any way in my life (emotional, financial, whatever), she would have suffered less, or I could have saved her. Does that make sense? No.

I think love is the same way. The same as any emotion. But you're free to disagree; in fact, I think your disagreement is quite refreshing (for whatever reason; I'm sure it isn't rational ).

edit: I fell in love with a woman, years ago. Why did I love her? She was hot but that wasn't it. She let me talk to her, she treated me poorly, and she loved me back. Some of it makes no sense, but the emotion was still there.

 

[Chrisling]

As a part-time Taoist, I feel obliged to say that the alienation of reason and heart is not necessary, and they can build off of each other in beautiful and useful ways.

 

[LostSoul]

As a part-time Taoist, I feel obliged to say that the alienation of reason and heart is not necessary, and they can build off of each other in beautiful and useful ways.

That is true, only if you accept both at the same time. As a modern psychiatrist would say, "the right brain and the left brain should work in unison". I think that you have to accept the irrational emotional aspect in human nature, and work with it (instead of fighting against it) with the rational part.

I love Taoism, by the way. (that wink in no way implies facetiousness. )

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Love Triangles & Bulls in an Emotional China Shoppe

You think so? I think you can explain it just like guilt or something like that. An example: I feel guilty because my mom died. Why? Well, I think that if I could have been more "successful", in any way in my life (emotional, financial, whatever), she would have suffered less, or I could have saved her. Does that make sense? No.

But guilt over your mother's death ultimately comes back to the love you had for her. Different kind of love perhaps, but no more rational for that.

Irrationality explained.

 

[LostSoul]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Love Triangles & Bulls in an Emotional China Shoppe

But guilt over your mother's death ultimately comes back to the love you had for her. Different kind of love perhaps, but no more rational for that.

Irrationality explained.

That's cool! But don't you think it is still irrational for me to feel that way, even though I know that I'm not to blame? (Hell, part of me blames myself for her death because I was trouble when I was a kid. If, perhaps, I was a perfect human, then maybe she would have been able to see the cancer (or not even got it) in time to do something about it?)

I guess my whole point is that, although we can explain emotions, it doesn't make it rational. Just understandable.

By the way, Canis, thanks for the talk!

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Love Triangles & Bulls in an Emotional China Shoppe

That's cool! But don't you think it is still irrational for me to feel that way, even though I know that I'm not to blame? (Hell, part of me blames myself for her death because I was trouble when I was a kid. If, perhaps, I was a perfect human, then maybe she would have been able to see the cancer (or not even got it) in time to do something about it?)

I guess my whole point is that, although we can explain emotions, it doesn't make it rational. Just understandable.

By the way, Canis, thanks for the talk!

No problem. Psychologists would tell you that there are reasons for those feelings, and take you through months and months of deprograming and reprograming yourself, wherein you invent reasons that probably weren't there before.

Personally, I find it easier to admit that we don't actually know how or why the brain does anything but basic sensory processing (I'm in Neuroscience, so I know of what I speak). And let them cook up theories out of thin air all they want. It keeps them out of my hair

 

[Zappo]

As a part-time Taoist, I feel obliged to say that the alienation of reason and heart is not necessary, and they can build off of each other in beautiful and useful ways.

Ok, but that doesn't make a good plot.

 

[Dark Helmet]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Love Triangles & Bulls in an Emotional China Shoppe

True, but they are easier to rationalize.

If I look at it, I can figure out why I'm angry, or happy, or sad.

Love just is, without much to explain it. [/hijack]

Was it not The Bard who said: "What's love got to do with it. What's love, but a second-hand emotion?"

Oh, I'm sorry, wrong bard.

 

[s/LaSH]

Emotions are just natural shortcuts that underly rational thought. They're simple rules applied to complex situations, that somehow result in favourable outcomes most of the time. It's when they screw up that you need rational thought to develop a more complex method of dealing with the situation.

Evolutionary psychology aside... romantic angst. Here's an idea suited for more rules-lawyer-esque players: Give bonuses for love. Say +1 to all rolls when defending your beloved, faster healing rate when in their arms, stuff like that. Then give them conflicting goals, where seeking these bonuses will impair their ability to complete a mission.

It's all about speaking to the innermost heart of the player. And if you have to use hit-roll bonuses to reach that heart, then it might just be worth it, because once you find what motivates them you can start jerking them around on a chain and generally behaving in a manner reserved for romances.

 

[Reynard]

There isn't much romantic angst in fantasy fiction that I know of, simply because most fantasy writers use their work to... well, fantasize. I'm afraid you're going to have to look to some more modern stuff.

I disagree wholeheartedly. If you read modern fantasy (basically 90% of everything post-Tolkien), it is basically a form of romantic litertaure. Not only do women read fantasy far more than men do (men read more science fiction), but women write fantasy far more than men do. On top of it, most big fantasy writers, like Robert Jordan, got their start writing romance. Even if you ignore modern fantasy fiction, the classic "fantasy" of the middle ages was called Romance for a reason, and even pulp writer like Howard and Leiber brought love and sex into their stories.

The funny thing is that fantasy gamers tend to be male, so the same viewpoints and preferences that drive the fantasy fiction market do not drive the fantasy rpg market. Fantasy rpgs, and D&D in particular, leave out the romance from the rule books (obviously, there are nor game mechanics, but it is not very often even presented in the "how to run this game" section). The only company I can think of off the top of my head that makes a point to build interpersonal relationships, romance and otherwise, into their games and settings is White Wolf (Vampire and xalted in particular).

On the subject of what creates romantic angst, I don't think people acting stupid or miscommunicating is necessary at all. Perhaps the people involved simply cannot be together, because of social, racial, otr even geographical boundaries. Perhaps a lover was lost a long time ago and now has ben reincarnated, but has little interest in continuing the relationship (see the current run of Hawkman by Geoff Johns). There are innumerable ways to create romantic tension without resorting to tired movie cliches.