Romantic Angst and D&D
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Jondor_Battlehammer
First Post
Having an old love resurface...
Reincarnated as something grotesque, or even fallen to evil, (ie Blackgaurd).
With amnesia, so they don't remember the love they once shared. Maybe they are even rude and uncaring.
Have an old love slandered or implicated post mortem in some foul plot.
Have the lost loves children suddenly appear. For one reason or another the two were seperated, war, disfigurment, spacial rift, ect., but not before conception. Years later, the PC bumps into a willful teen, off on their first great adventure. As if their lack of concern for the danger weren't disconcertinf enough, they bear a striking reseblence to one of the pair.
Or you could always have a Paladin fall in love with a CN Succubus. Dosn't get more angsty than that.
Reincarnated as something grotesque, or even fallen to evil, (ie Blackgaurd).
With amnesia, so they don't remember the love they once shared. Maybe they are even rude and uncaring.
Have an old love slandered or implicated post mortem in some foul plot.
Have the lost loves children suddenly appear. For one reason or another the two were seperated, war, disfigurment, spacial rift, ect., but not before conception. Years later, the PC bumps into a willful teen, off on their first great adventure. As if their lack of concern for the danger weren't disconcertinf enough, they bear a striking reseblence to one of the pair.
Or you could always have a Paladin fall in love with a CN Succubus. Dosn't get more angsty than that.
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Fred Delles
First Post
Re: Re: Re: Romantic Angst and D&D
The first rule of gaming is to have fun. If you don't have fun, it would wreck the game. Look at Hollywood (except for some of the independent flicks). Lots of happy endings, or, at least, some sort of "kill all" which both good and bad are otherwise beaten.
A good amount play to escape the horrors of real life. Why put such horrors and depression on the gaming table?
mmadsen said:
The first rule of gaming is to have fun. If you don't have fun, it would wreck the game. Look at Hollywood (except for some of the independent flicks). Lots of happy endings, or, at least, some sort of "kill all" which both good and bad are otherwise beaten.
A good amount play to escape the horrors of real life. Why put such horrors and depression on the gaming table?
When I saw the title for this thread, I thought you meant Romantic (movement) angst. Although that isn't what you had in mind, there are some sources that you might consider for plots.
Frankensteinian angst: a veddy veddy Romantic novel. Protagonist creates creature, rejects creature. Creature destroys protagonist's fiance. Protagonist dedicates life to destroying creature. (it's actually a bit more complicated, but there's a good RPG situation in that there formula).
Byronic angst: solitary figure has deep, dark, unrequited love (such as love for sister) which manifests itself in continual fruitless quests, dark descents into forbidden knowledge or magic, or cruelty to the innocent. Make the players either be this person or be this NPC's object of obsession. (rec. reading: "Manfred," Byron's biography)
Dickensian angst: protagonist must choose between two potential loves (one lowborn, one highborn). The act of doing what it takes to achieve one alienates both. Have a small child die to boot. (Tale of Two Cities (better yet, read a plot summary of it); Great Expectations, others).
Keatsian angst: Protagonist is talented, in love, and dying of a terminal disease. Complications follow.
Don't forget that revolution is a very romantic setting. The key to plotting it romantically is to have love interests on both sides, and have the protagonist in a position where love and politics can't be reconciled. In short, any no-win situation that allows for exalted feelings can potentially be angst-ridden and romantic.
Frankensteinian angst: a veddy veddy Romantic novel. Protagonist creates creature, rejects creature. Creature destroys protagonist's fiance. Protagonist dedicates life to destroying creature. (it's actually a bit more complicated, but there's a good RPG situation in that there formula).
Byronic angst: solitary figure has deep, dark, unrequited love (such as love for sister) which manifests itself in continual fruitless quests, dark descents into forbidden knowledge or magic, or cruelty to the innocent. Make the players either be this person or be this NPC's object of obsession. (rec. reading: "Manfred," Byron's biography)
Dickensian angst: protagonist must choose between two potential loves (one lowborn, one highborn). The act of doing what it takes to achieve one alienates both. Have a small child die to boot. (Tale of Two Cities (better yet, read a plot summary of it); Great Expectations, others).
Keatsian angst: Protagonist is talented, in love, and dying of a terminal disease. Complications follow.
Don't forget that revolution is a very romantic setting. The key to plotting it romantically is to have love interests on both sides, and have the protagonist in a position where love and politics can't be reconciled. In short, any no-win situation that allows for exalted feelings can potentially be angst-ridden and romantic.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Romantic Angst and D&D
Because a good amount of people love to revel and wallow in angst. Just as some folks like to fling fireballs, and hack monsters into gory bits (do things they'd probably want to avoid in real life), they may want to play with emotions that they'd rather not see in real life.
You tailor to your player's particular tastes, of course. If they unanimously don't want it, don't put it in. But, just because many folks about in the world don't like a thing isn't a reason to avoid it in your particular game. Many people in the world don't even like the fantasy genre - is that a reason to avoid it in a game?
Fred Delles said:
Because a good amount of people love to revel and wallow in angst. Just as some folks like to fling fireballs, and hack monsters into gory bits (do things they'd probably want to avoid in real life), they may want to play with emotions that they'd rather not see in real life.
You tailor to your player's particular tastes, of course. If they unanimously don't want it, don't put it in. But, just because many folks about in the world don't like a thing isn't a reason to avoid it in your particular game. Many people in the world don't even like the fantasy genre - is that a reason to avoid it in a game?
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Warrior Poet
Explorer
Quick additional suggestions for reading:
The Lions of Al Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay
Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolf (part of his larger tetralogy [or quintology, depending on how you ... anyway]), with regard to Severian's relationship with the Chatelaine Thecla ... and just about any woman he meets in that series.
Eowyn's ruminations, doubt, and internal conflict in The Two Towers and The Return of the King by Tolkien.
Check your Arthurian legends: chock full o' romantic angst.
The Dragon In The Sword by Michael Moorcock, or the Elric of Melnibone series, by same. See Elric's relationship with Cymoril, Queen Yishana of Jharkor, and Zarozinia, and the wingless myhrrn woman whose name escapes me at the moment ...
The Magic Goes Away by Larry Niven, emphasis on the swordsman's relationship with the woman wizard.
Not to mention all the classic non-fantasy literature that's brimming with angst. The Aeneid, The Good Soldier, Middlemarch, etc.
Warrior Poet
The Lions of Al Rassan by Guy Gavriel Kay
Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolf (part of his larger tetralogy [or quintology, depending on how you ... anyway]), with regard to Severian's relationship with the Chatelaine Thecla ... and just about any woman he meets in that series.
Eowyn's ruminations, doubt, and internal conflict in The Two Towers and The Return of the King by Tolkien.
Check your Arthurian legends: chock full o' romantic angst.
The Dragon In The Sword by Michael Moorcock, or the Elric of Melnibone series, by same. See Elric's relationship with Cymoril, Queen Yishana of Jharkor, and Zarozinia, and the wingless myhrrn woman whose name escapes me at the moment ...
The Magic Goes Away by Larry Niven, emphasis on the swordsman's relationship with the woman wizard.
Not to mention all the classic non-fantasy literature that's brimming with angst. The Aeneid, The Good Soldier, Middlemarch, etc.
Warrior Poet
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You're pointing to Hollywood? To support not putting horror or romantic angst in your game? What do you think horror movies and romantic comedies are about?
Conflict -- and the threat of conflict -- is at the center of drama and entertainment. In a classical comedy (or typical Hollywood movie) the conflict is resolved at the end -- but there was plenty of conflict along the way. In a classical tragedy (or typical art movie) the conflict isn't resolved, but you get to leave the theater cathartically purged of those negative emotions.
High-falutin' dramatic theory aside, romantic angst is a staple of soap operas and movie sub-plots. If it works there, why can't it work at the gaming table?
SHARK
First Post
Greetings!
I agree with mmadsen. In one's campaigns, romantic involvement and different social relationships can add many interesting dimensions to a game. The fact that many players aren't comfortable with such seems to be a reflection of the idea that many players are more into "Hack&Slash" styles of play, and are thus less comfortable with dramatic roleplaying and developing complex, interpersonal relationships.
However, including such can certainly enrich a campaign, but generally only with mature players who are interested in developing such themes in the campaign.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
I agree with mmadsen.
In one's campaigns, romantic involvement and different social relationships can add many interesting dimensions to a game. The fact that many players aren't comfortable with such seems to be a reflection of the idea that many players are more into "Hack&Slash" styles of play, and are thus less comfortable with dramatic roleplaying and developing complex, interpersonal relationships.However, including such can certainly enrich a campaign, but generally only with mature players who are interested in developing such themes in the campaign.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
SHARK said:
I'll bet that more often than not, it's more a reflection of DMs not being comfortable or facile in writing romance plots.
Remember - playing is a skill, and players will tend to lean to their strengths. If they've never been presented with an engaging romance plot (angsty or otherwise), they won't have developed playing such things as a strength.
SHARK
First Post
Greetings!
Indeed, Umbran, DM's who don't have the skills to develop such scenarios don't help players who don't have the skills develop such! It makes me wonder why in books like the DM's Guide they don't include discussions about running modules and story arcs that differ from dungeon-raid and simplistic "Hack & Slash"?
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Indeed, Umbran, DM's who don't have the skills to develop such scenarios don't help players who don't have the skills develop such!
It makes me wonder why in books like the DM's Guide they don't include discussions about running modules and story arcs that differ from dungeon-raid and simplistic "Hack & Slash"?Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
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