Romantic Angst and D&D

[jollyninja]

i have found that angst (romantic as well as other types) springs from trying to deny feelings for logical reasons, or the inability to find a logical way to deal with your feelings if they are somewhat inappropriate.

as much as i hate using dragonlance as a literary refrence, tanis half elven is an excellent example of the whole romantic angst concept. through most of the story, he is in love with a woman who is totally wrong for him. the things that make her wrong for him are the things he loves about her, her confidence and self awareness, and her complete self sufficience, are the things that keep her from attaching herself temotionally to anyone.

also through the whole story is the elven princess who grew up with tanis and has been in love with him for as long as she can remember. despite the fact that he is the half human bastard son of a relative of hers who was raped and then died, he is the only man she wants. to him, she is a child he played with before he was forced to grow up and move away, to her he is the model by which she compares all men. the differing perception of these two characters (as well as tanis' extreme self hatred) serves to create tension as the story unfolds.

this subplot is one of the primary reasons the books were so successful in my opinion, it made the characters seem less then perfect which has since become the norm but i've read alot more "perfect hero" crap that was put out before the chronicles then after.

 

[Umbran]

It makes me wonder why in books like the DM's Guide they don't include discussions about running modules and story arcs that differ from dungeon-raid and simplistic "Hack & Slash"?

Seems simple enough to me. "Hack & Slash" is mostly a matter of rules. Emotion isn't.

Writing game books isn't the easiest thing in the world. But writing down how to balance encounters and treasure, how to include immersive detail in your scenarios, these are tractable tasks. Sitting down to write a generic piece on how to inject believable emotion is another kettle of fish. Emotion-based plots are best when they are tailored to the individual player and character. So you're basically asking them to teach a universal class on how to do unique things. That's a tall order.

 

[Chaldfont]

I have not had the chance to use this in a game yet, but I love the idea of having a PC fall madly in love with the party's arch enemy.

When I say "madly" I mean irrationaly, completely, uncontrollably. In Glen Cook's Black Company books, the narrator falls madly in love with the evil sorceress leader of the opposing army. Forget that she becomes a good guy later on.

I want a PC to really care for that character, but still know that the character is the enemy and must be defeated at all costs.

This is tough to do, and, I imagine, requires the intimate knowledge of the player that comes from being a close friend--really knowing how to push that person's buttons. If it is your wife, that shouldn't be too hard.

Something I have done with a PC recently is make him decide between adventuring and the family life. His love's family insist on him taking over the family business and giving up this "adventuring nonsense" to settle down. So far he has put off making a decision, but in the next session, the father of the girl is going to announce their engagement (unbeknownst to the PC!) in hopes to speed things along.

 

[Rel]

I'll bet that more often than not, it's more a reflection of DMs not being comfortable or facile in writing romance plots.

Remember - playing is a skill, and players will tend to lean to their strengths. If they've never been presented with an engaging romance plot (angsty or otherwise), they won't have developed playing such things as a strength.

I'll wager that ther is a lot of truth in that, Umbran. One other contributory factor to it could well be that the large majority of gamers are male and from much of what I've seen on these boards, all male gaming groups are very common.

I would submit that since most men are heterosexual, they are not used to relating romantically to other men. That means that when the GM is trying to forward a romantic plot line, it can make for a somewhat uncomfortable experience for all involved even though the PC and NPC involved might be a heterosexual male and female.

It could certainly be argued that it shouldn't be uncomfortable. After all, if the GM is adept at portraying an evil ogre chieftain who likes to suck the marrow from the bones of children, why should portraying a woman with an interest in a male PC (or a male with an interest in a female PC or any of the other possible gender combinations) be uncomfortable? I'd say it is because societal pressures say that when men relate to other men that it is okay to do it violently but less ok to do it romantically.

None of which is to say that we should be slaves to these societal pressures. As I mentioned in my previous post, I've done numerous romantic plotlines and nobody got weirded out by it.

But the fact is that many groups don't include romance in their storylines and it could well be for the reasons I've outlined. And if nobody in the group wants such plotlines, that works out fine. But if you add a new player to the group (be it a male or female) who does want those kinds of story arcs, it can be difficult if you have not had any practice.

All I can add is that, like almost anything else, you will get more proficient at it the more you do it. And if your players are interested in those types of storylines, it cannot help but enrich your game.

 

[Henry]

I would submit that since most men are heterosexual, they are not used to relating romantically to other men. That means that when the GM is trying to forward a romantic plot line, it can make for a somewhat uncomfortable experience for all involved even though the PC and NPC involved might be a heterosexual male and female....I'd say it is because societal pressures say that when men relate to other men that it is okay to do it violently but less ok to do it romantically.

None of which is to say that we should be slaves to these societal pressures. As I mentioned in my previous post, I've done numerous romantic plotlines and nobody got weirded out by it.

BINGO! We have a winner.

Everytime I have tried to introduce a romantic interest into a campaign, whether on or off-camera, The players drop it like a hot potato. It's not an issue that most same-gender groups tackle too much, also because it is an emotional situation that, unlike getting mauled by an ogre, is possible in normal, daily life.

We have handled mauling, torture, mass slaughter, jousting tournaments, living dead, dragons the size of condominiums, etc. - but rape, romantic relationships, and paying bills are things that almost never show up in our games. Strange thing, that.

 

[redknight]

angst in my campaign

I do not know if this will help, but here is how I included romantic angst in my campaign.

First I started with the classic love triangle. WIth both the party paladin and the rogue vying for the attentions of the same girl.

Once the paladin realized that his was more of a protective/brotherly kind of love, the path opened up for the rogue.

Then the girl was possessed (Sort of a Jeckel-Hyde syndrome). The rogue fell for both aspects of the girl. One was good but rather niave, the other was not so good but more worldly, fun loving and adventurous.

Both the aspects of the gilr are in love with the rogue. It is now leading up to the rogue having to chose one over the other. Only one will be able to retain possession of the body they now share.

Also, the girl is fated to sacrifice her own life to save the world. (Unless the rogue defies fate and does something to change the girls destiny.)

Again, don't know if this will help, but I thought I would throw it out as a source for some ideas.

 

[Umbran]

There's another major obstruction to such plots - you can never be sure that the player will pick it up. You can railroad players into physical locales, battles, or political entanglements. You can easily play upon their greed, heroic nature, or what have you. But you cannot choose to make a PC feel something (at least not without enchantment magics).

So, what's a DM to do - You can set up just about any other plot you want, and find a viable hook to get the party interested. But romance is dictaed by PC initiative. The player must choose to make the character emotionally involved, not the DM.

 

[Templetroll]

Try "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi channel. The relationships Nick Knight has are wonderfully angsty and romantic. It also includes the triangle mentioned above with Nick and janette having such a history and Natalie's desire for some history to be created.

Soap operas are good also, even if they never make sense to you. Keep in mind that the people involved can never open up and be completely truthful with each other! That keeps things nice and angst-ridden.

 

[radferth]

I never thought I would recomend this movie for anything other than some special effects, but for an example of romantic angst done very clumsily by a DM who seems uncomfortable with the concept, see Attack of the Clones. Not a great romance movie, but it should certainly give you the confidence that even if you don't know how to pull of romantic angst, at least you can do a better job than Lucas.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

I never thought I would recomend this movie for anything other than some special effects, but for an example of romantic angst done very clumsily by a DM who seems uncomfortable with the concept, see Attack of the Clones. Not a great romance movie, but it should certainly give you the confidence that even if you don't know how to pull of romantic angst, at least you can do a better job than Lucas.

Actually, that particular example of angst is perfect in the social and cultural framework of most fantasy worlds. Like in Star Wars, the character's social and cultural obligations actually mean something. The only reason Lucas' romance fell flat among modern audiences is because most of us can't conceive of holding back from personal satisfaction over anything so "abstract" as an ideal or a vow.

Of course, for a paladin, cleric, monk, etc. these things are very real.