Romantic Angst and D&D

Romantic Angst in fantasy? I'd direct you to Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Season 2 and 3 were FULL of romantic angst, and the whole series is reasonably full of all varieties.

I have tried to throw romance in, the option has been ignored by the targeted character. Funny thing was, the romantic interest has become a favorite NPC of the one female player we have. Maybe she just likes the target of the NPC's affections looking uncomfortable.
 

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Canis said:
The only reason Lucas' romance fell flat among modern audiences is because most of us can't conceive of holding back from personal satisfaction over anything so "abstract" as an ideal or a vow.

No way. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It's all about the writing, directing, and acting. In Attack of the Clones, none of these three elements are outstanding.
 
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kenjib said:
No way. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. It's all about the writing, directing, and acting. In Attack of the Clones, none of these three elements are outstanding.

Oh, I didn't say they were outstanding. Lucas can't direct actors to save his life. He can stage an epic battle, but the actors are on their own. Crouching Tiger clearly did a better job with all aspects of its angsty love stories.

I'm just a touch sick and tired of the knee-jerk "I'm going to bash Lucas 'cause his movie didn't speak to me as readily now as it did when I was 8" thing. The movie is actually loaded with symbolism and interesting concepts, if you care to look for them. Of course, most movie critics have all the literary training of a wet sock, but we don't dare disagree with the least trained people on the planet :rolleyes:

And, as for angst, the reasons why those two couldn't be together (which mystified many people I know, and clearly were beyond Ms. Portman) should have been obvious, IMO, to people familiar with medieval literature and older fantasy novels. That romance would have played in front of a Victorian audience beautifully. So, at worst I think we can accuse Lucas of being out of touch with the modern audience. Then again, as I heard a little boy telling his mother on the way out of the theater, "Of course he shouldn't get married. He's a Jedi, he has more important stuff ta do... like beatin' up bad guys 'n stuff."

So maybe Lucas isn't all that out of touch with his audience.

So, while definitely not "outstanding," the romance is a lot better than people give it credit for, from a certain point of view ;)
 

Yeah, that's a good point. There is definitely a lot of potential in the plot. Plotting and archetypes have always been two of Lucas' strong points. Those are both still strong in the movie, I'll give it that for sure. Perhaps part of the problem is that the strongest actors in the film (and there are definitely some high caliber people in the film) are not in the roles that require the best acting.

So what are some of the various related elements that can be used in D&D to bring it all together?

plot: the DM needs to provide strong and interesting story hooks for romantic conflict. Some situations will inevitably breed conflict, and thus plot.

directing: While the DM helps build the stories, the players also need to throw their own brand of confusion into the mix. Ultimately they decide to pick up certain story elements and ignore others. It should be a relationship of synergy. The DM needs to know what the players are looking for.

writing: characters (both PCs and NPCs) need to be well enough fleshed out so their motivations are consistent and tangible enough to be played off of. You should be able to think about "what would character X do in Y situation" and come up with answers that vary from person to person. Take advantage of these character traits to draw people into the story through what makes them unique. Put them in situations where these characteristics, that only exist outside of character stats and often considered merely incidental to the hack n' slash, have a strong, tangible, effect on the plot and well being of the characters. Present character defining moral dilemmas to the players. Make these character traits have more of an impact on your game than the character's BaB, saves, ability scores, spells, and enhancement bonus on their magic sword.

acting: it doesn't work well if the players don't really get into their characters heads. Sometimes, for example, it's best for the story if they intentionally act irrationally and even against their own best interests to keep in the spirit of the angsty lover. He is usually a tragic hero.

archetypes: the spurned lover, the love triangle, the forbidden love, the unrequited vow, the jealous lover, the cuckold, the charismatic abuser, the self-hater -- this is all good stuff. Take advantage of classic motifs to help give the players something to hang on to and run with. There is a reason why these same simple stories get told over, and over, and over, and over again. They also help other people not playing a given character understand a character more quickly. Once you've got these down start adding little twists to them -- the lover who is jealous because of insecurity -- the love that is forbidden only because of taboos of a culture that is now virtually extinct, but which a character clings to because he is the last survivor of that culture and thus can not bear to let go -- the lover who believes himself spurned and strikes against his love interest in anger but in reality has never professed his love and never knew that his love interest once, long ago, secretly loved him back -- the cuckold that knows and pretends he doesn't care (although he truly does care deeply) just to spare his crushed pride, an act which only hurts/estranges his lover and makes her cheat even more in an attempt just to get the angry reaction that proves he still loves her -- etc.
 
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You can definitely provide archetypes through NPCs, but plot and directing can be a problem. Getting the characters to stop nibbling on the dern hook and bite down is probably the hard part.

Any DMs want to share how they build a romance hook to make sure the player takes a good bite?
 

The only reason Lucas' romance fell flat among modern audiences is because most of us can't conceive of holding back from personal satisfaction over anything so "abstract" as an ideal or a vow.
The only reason? Hardly. You can enjoy historical romances and still hate Episode II. And Episode I. And much of Episode VI. But I guess I shouldn't turn this into a Star Wars discussion.

To keep things on topic, is there any good way to play out the equivalent of the Anakin-Amidala romance? Or to play out Anakin's fall?
 

Canis said:

Any DMs want to share how they build a romance hook to make sure the player takes a good bite?

Sure. Ask the players who wants to get involved with that, the sort of character they want to get involved with, make such a character (with "modifications" to keep it interesting, of course).

I have found that, unless I bring it up out of game, many players WILL NOT RECOGNIZE THAT ROMANCE IS AN OPTION. For romantic RP to work, the players must first recognize that it's an option.

Additionally, even players who want to do romantic RP are often unsure of how to do it, so lots of experimentation, half-starts and out-and-out failures are likely to happen.
 

I'm just going to point people towards The Silver Wolf by Alice Borschadt. I really dislike modern romance novels, but this was extremely entertaining. And certainly fantasy (the lead character is a werewolf!).
 

mmadsen said:
Or to play out Anakin's fall?

You cannot usually plan to play out a fall. You can plan to give a character an opportunity to fall, but the actual falling must be the PCs choice. Unless you discuss it with the player beforehand, the best is to try to gently lead the character down the primrose path to perdition. Whether they chose to take the dive is up to them, and you can't really predict which way it shall go...
 

You cannot usually plan to play out a fall. You can plan to give a character an opportunity to fall, but the actual falling must be the PCs choice. Unless you discuss it with the player beforehand, the best is to try to gently lead the character down the primrose path to perdition. Whether they chose to take the dive is up to them, and you can't really predict which way it shall go...
Sure, they should make the choice to fall -- just as they make the choice to engage in a romantic subplot or to build a stronghold -- but how do you make that a natural part of the game?

If you have a really motivated player who comes into the game wanting to win the princess's love then see her die, then go into a mad rage and spiral into a destructive depression, he can do that, but how do you make it more likely that your "normal" players will choose dramatic-but-suboptimal strategies?
 

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