Rotten pregenerated PC's at WotC

[Rystil Arden]

Here, try this

Here's my rebuild, but keep in mind that the Paladin was 25 Point Buy before, so I just rearranged the PB choices for the stats. I tried to keep the stats more-or-less the same, and it should be vastly more playable now (I hope!). I'm not sure what Action Boost is, but I'll assume that it is important for the playtest, so it stays. Oh, the HP went up even though Toughness went away because I gave average HP rolls.

Sareth, Paladin of the Silver Flame Human Fighter 1/ Paladin 2: CR 3; Medium Humanoid (human); HD 3d10+6; hp 27; Init +4; Spd 20 ft.; AC 20 (+0 Dex, +8 masterwork full plate, +2 masterwork heavy steel shield), touch 10, flat-footed 20; Base Atk +3; Grp +5; Atk/Full Atk +7 melee (masterwork longsword 1d8+2, 19-20/x2); SA smite evil 1/day; SQ aura of good, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands; AP 2; AL LG; SV Fort +10, Ref +3, Will +3; Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 16.
Languages: Common.
Skills: Climb +2 (-6 armor), Concentration +4, Hide +0 (-7 armor), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +3, Listen +0, Move Silently +0 (-7 armor), Search -2, Sense Motive +6, Spot +0.
Feats: Action Boost, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (longsword), Improved Initiative

Oh, and you may want to switch out Improved Initiative for either Lightning Reflexes or Iron Will (the loss of Wisdom hurt the Will saves).

Hope this helps!

 

[Mark]

Hope this helps!

Sure does! Who wants to have at one of the others?

Here is the link (http://www.geocities.com/wizo_dabus/vdd.html)

 

[Rystil Arden]

Sure does! Who wants to have at one of the others?

I'll do any and all of them that people think are broken. It sounds like some of the others may be fine though.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

As far as I can see, most are pretty okay. The Human Monk and Dwarf Bard could do with a little tweaking; the monks abilities could be swapped & switch the longsword for a pole arm; the Bard has rather poor abilities but above the minimum (as you'd expect from a character generator program) and I'm not so sure what to do there.

Character builds should be geared towards the immediate adventure, so picking toughness(es) is fine so long as the character can achieve their primary task.

 

[Orius]

He's a pretty inept paladin there. With a 10 strength and only toughness as a combat feat.

Yeah, I thought "Ouch" myself when i saw the 10 Str. The 9 Dex and 6 Int make things even worse (perhaps not much, since they're arguably the least important paladin stats). The 16 Wis is ok for a paladin, but I wouldn't stick more than a 14 there myself since that's as much as you need to get the most spells. It does help with Will saves, but paladin's already have decent will saves to begin with. The extra +1 to spell DCs is nice, but I'd still want that +1 somewhere else.

But 10 Str is a killer. Paladins are often used as melee fighters, 10 Str makes him suck at it. His attack bonuses are going to suck. You got a flat 0 with melee attacks, and a -1 with ranged attacks. The fact that he's using full plate and a large steel shield encumber him a lot, since he's going to have a low carrying capacity as well (and usually meleers tend to make the best mules with their high Str scores). I would definitely not want to play this character.

 

[billd91]

I think this is all much ado about nothing. So the paladin and some other characters are sub-optimal? Makes for an interesting challenge to play.
Next thing you know, some of you guys will be wanting egg in your beer.

 

[Mark]

Well, in this case there is a goal of moving through small complex and the players only get to choose from the available characters and make use of a few additional alternate rules. It behooves the nature of the exercise, in the interest of fairness, to present the players (who come together, likely, not knowing one another) with an assortment of balanced characters from which to choose so that they can have a chance of achieving the goal. It's not like a campaign game where the fun is as much in the roleplaying and flavor aspects. It's more like a team tournament.

Rystil Arden - If you or someone else wants to take a shot at adjusting the Monk or the Bard next, go right ahead.

 

[Rystil Arden]

OK, for the monk I decided to get rid of the Bracers of Armour because I'd expect him to get a Mage Armour instead for even more AC. Oh, and he rolled nearly maximum for HP before, so even though I raised the CON and the fighter level, HP goes down with taking averages. Oh, and I kept the sword themed monk by using fighter levels instead. Oh, and the skill points and hit points are based on taking a monk level first. If you use the monk multiclassing restriction, add 1 to HP and subtract 1 rank from each of the following 4 skills: Perform, Jump, Diplomacy, Climb.

Human fighter 1 / monk 2: CR 3; Medium Humanoid (human); HD 1d10+2d8; hp 18; Init +7; Spd 30 ft.; AC 16 (+3 Dex, +3 Wis), touch 16, flat-footed 13; Base Atk +2; Grp +3; Atk +3 melee (unarmed strike 1d6+1, 20/x2) or +5 melee (masterwork longsword 1d8+1, 19-20/x2) or +5 ranged (masterwork sling 1d4+1, 20/x2, 50 ft.); Full Atk +1/+1 melee (2 unarmed strikes 1d6+1, 20/x2) or +5 melee (masterwork longsword 1d8+1, 19-20/x2) or +5 ranged (masterwork mighty composite longbow 1d8+1, 20/x2, 110 ft.); SA flurry of blows; SQ evasion; AP 2; AL LG; SV Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +6; Str 12, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.
Languages: Common, Giant, Halfling.
Skills: Balance +6, Climb +5, Diplomacy +4, Hide +8, Jump +4, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Listen +9, Move Silently +3, Perform (Percussion Instruments) +1, Search +2, Spot +3, Tumble +6.
Feats: Deflect Arrows (b), Dodge, Improved Grapple (b), Improved Unarmed Strike (b), Weapon Focus (longsword), Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative.

 

[Rystil Arden]

The poor bard was PB 21, so I kicked him up to 25. He still may seem worse than the others, but...well...he's a Bard. I won't say anything more about that. Anyway, I tried to make him an archer, but the lack of the human bonus feat for Precise Shot really hurt. He will need to work hard on making the most of his 20 ft movement to position himself to aid the party with songs, spells, and ranged support.

Dwarf bard 3: CR 3; Medium Humanoid (dwarf); HD 3d6+6; hp 19; Init +2; Spd 20 ft.; AC 16 (+2 Dex, +4 masterwork chain shirt), touch 12, flat-footed 14; Base Atk +2; Grp +1; Atk/Full Atk +2 melee (masterwork longsword 1d8-1, 19-20/x2) or +5 (+6 within 30 ft) ranged (masterwork light crossbow 1d8 (+1 within 30 ft), 19-20/x2, 80 ft.) or +3/+3 (+4/+4 within 30 ft) ranged (masterwork composite longbow 1d8-1 (+0 within 30 ft), 20/x3, 110 ft.); SA attack bonus, bardic music 4/day, fascinate, inspire courage +1; SQ bardic knowledge +2, countersong, darkvision 60 ft., defense bonus, inspire competence, stability, stonecunning, weapon familiarity; AP 2; AL N; SV Fort +3 (+5 vs. poison), Ref +5 (+7 vs. spells), Will +2 (+4 vs. spells); Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 14.
Languages: Common, Dwarven, Giant.
Skills: Appraise +1 (+3 stone/metal), Climb -1, Craft (armorsmithing) +3, Craft (blacksmithing) +3, Craft (stonemasonry) +3, Craft (trapmaking) +3, Craft (weaponsmithing) +3, Hide +2, Jump -1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +2, Listen +2, Move Silently +2, Perform (dance) +8, Perform (percussion instruments) +3, Perform (sing) +7, Perform (string instruments) +6, Ride +2, Search +1 (+3 stonework), Spellcraft +2, Spot -1, Use Magic Device +8.
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot.

 

[Amal Shukup]

I think I'd play this character as retarded. I mean, a 6 int? I'd argue that Forrest Gump had at least a 7 Int..

While the D&D attribute system is a fairly 'blunt' tool for measuring intelligence (So, for that matter, is the IQ scale), please do keep in mind that AVERAGE (mean) human intelligence is most closely represented by a 10. Odds are that most of the people you (all of us) know are going to be between 8 and 12. Are they idiots? Nah, just normal folks. Most of us have probably never met an 18...

Every D&D player in the world pretty much assumes that they have 'at least' a 14 INT or so - But that's 'Lake Woebegone' effect in action: "We're ALL 'above average'!" Huh? What's that again?? It's like the joke about over eager Sales people: "We lose a buck on every sale, but we make it up in VOLUME"...

According to a 'rule of thumb' I've seen (IQ=INTx10), 14 INT translates roughly to a 140 IQ - which:

a) Equates to 'Genius' or 'Very Superior' depending on whose scale you use
b) Represents something like 2% of the population (being almost three standard deviations from the mean)
c) Is about the HIGHEST IQ most 'IQ tests' can even test for (people saying they've tested '150+' or whatever are almost certainly lying unless the 'test' was a battery of tests administered by experts).​

I'm sorta cool with your giving Forrest a 7 - he was pretty high-functioning. Absolutely 'Educable' (even if he didn't really get any). Probably a bit lower though. On the other hand, 6 is still not what we generally think of as 'retarded' - 'Severe' and 'Profound' mental retardation is typically represented by IQ scores below 35 (or at best a 3/4 INT according to the rule of thumb above).

6 is still pretty 'thick' (borderline deficient), but reasonably functional. Actually, with the 16 WIS, I think Forrest Gump (with slightly more schooling - religious/vocational training anyway) would be an excellent role model for this Paladin....

A'Mal