Roundabout Charge

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Deleted - on second reading of the post I was responding to, it didn't say what I thought it said.

 

[Samir]

Or
With Roundabout Charge: "The creature moves up to its speed toward any square adjacent to the target, from which it can attack the target. Each square of movement must bring the creature closer to the destination square, and the creature must end the move at least 2 squares away from its starting position."

This seems like the best solution until WotC fixes it, hopefully in the next batch of errata.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

It doesn't do anything any more, because they didn't consider the feat when they errataed the charge rules.

Simply let a player with the feat retrain it into something else, until they release errata for the feat.


EDIT: They also inadvertently did the same thing to Barrelling Charge when the errata removed the reach restriction on charging. Until there's some more errata, it's another useless feat.

 

[Chzbro]

It doesn't do anything any more, because they didn't consider the feat when they errataed the charge rules.

It still does plenty. It lets you charge to any adjacent square you can attack from. This might mean charging into flanks, charging around behind a medium or large creature (so long as each square of the charge brings you closer to your destination square), or even charging THROUGH a huge or larger creature--which is pretty cool.

And with a Badge of the Berserker or one of any number of paragon paths or powers, you won't even provoke opportunity attacks while doing so.

Edit: I can see where the argument comes in that none of this is possible because the charge errata says you must move closer to the target, but like some other posters in this thread, I think the best (and intended) ruling is to treat the destination square as the target. A more stringent application of RAW could invalidate this, but since I personally don't think they were trying to invalidate Roundabout Charge with the errata, I like the interpretation that keeps the feat relevant.

 

[keterys]

Barreling Charge doesn't do anything anymore (feature: It probably shouldn't have been a feat in the first place)

Roundabout Charge doesn't do anything anymore, due to an unintended interaction with the new rule requiring that each square bring you closer. Not a feature. I'll say, it's pretty tough when going through a huge list of changes to catch all of the collateral effects

Anyhow, Roundabout Charge has been brought up for additional errata - hopefully WotC will get a chance to look into it for July or September. For now I'd say it's clearly intended to do _something_ and I'd probably rule that it negates the requirement to move closer with each square, as that most closely fits the "Roundabout" requirement.

 

[firesnakearies]

I'd probably rule that it negates the requirement to move closer with each square, as that most closely fits the "Roundabout" requirement.

This is what I'd rule, as well.

 

[Taed]

While on the topic, a drop-in barbarian to our group killed a baddie and then said that he was using Swift Charge to attack another baddie that was adjacent. He said it was OK, but on reading it after the session, I see why he thought that way, but I won't allow it again. It says "Trigger: Your attack reduces an enemy to 0 hit points. Effect: You charge an enemy."

The confusion, as I see it, is that it should read more like "Effect: If possible, you may charge an enemy." Or something that makes it clear that you still have to meet the rules about charging.

Does anyone think that the rules of charging don't need to be met for Swift Charge?

Are there other rules that are written that way -- that make it sound like you can do something regardless (probably as an effect or reaction), but you still have to meet other conditions? Or are there ones written that way that override the conditions?

 

[firesnakearies]

Does anyone think that the rules of charging don't need to be met for Swift Charge?

No, I think you definitely have to still follow any rules for charging. If you could ignore the charge requirements with this power, I think the power text would call that out specifically. Since it doesn't, I'd definitely stick with the charging rules here. So, if there was no other enemy that he could legally charge, he simply couldn't use Swift Charge.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

The confusion, as I see it, is that it should read more like "Effect: If possible, you may charge an enemy." Or something that makes it clear that you still have to meet the rules about charging.

That's not how 4e works, though. It doesn't say "You have to follow the normal rules for charging", because that's what the use of the word "charge" in the sentence does. 4e only tells you when something works differently from normal.

So if they didn't want Swift Charge to work like a charge, they would have said "You can ignore rule X about charging" (like Opportunity Gore) or it would be a movement plus an attack that didn't count as a charge (like the post-errata Throw and Stab).

So he needed to move to charge some enemy. He cold have charged some other enemy, while provoking OAs from the adjacent guy, but he couldn't have charged the adjacent guy.