RttToEE not tough enough?

[BLACKDIRGE]

I am currently running my party of 6 through the Temple. They have recently penetrated deep into the crater ridge mines and I have found myself having to beef up some of the NPC's to provide an adequate challenge for my group. They were all created with the 32 point buy and there is a pretty even mix of classes and abilities in the group.

I find that the spellcasters in the temple are ok as is but the fighters and rogues are woefully underpowered. Perhaps 32 point buy is not what the game was designed for.

Anyone else run into this problem?

Dirge

 

[Darkness]

I haven't started it yet, so I can't comment from my own experience... I've never heard that anyone thought it wasn't tough enough, though. Take the posters on Monte Cook's own board for this, for example: http://pub58.ezboard.com/bokayyourturn

Anyway, I think this should be in General Discussion...

 

[Artoomis]

RttToEE. Easy?

ROFL

Look at some of the story hours on RttToEE for ideas. It seems to be very, very tough to get through. Character deaths abound.

Maybe you are being too easy on them? 32 point buy is not excessively high, and, in fact, is lower than what most people post as their "4d6 drop lowest" characters.

My 32-point halfling character, for example, has:

S 14
D 10
Co 10
I 12
W 14
Ch 16

Not exactly earth-shattering, is it?

 

[Lord Ben]

Yeah, I had the same problem too. The main beef is that most of the NPC's use the MM straight 10's instead of higher stats. So they'll have a group of CR1 Gnolls that have +3 to hit against your PC who has +1 platemail and +1 shield for a 23AC and they're basically invulnerable to attack.

Since the MM Gnolls were created with 10 + 4 (racial) and 14 plus a BAB of 1 I decided to just give all humanoids enhanced stats.

I use 2 14's, 2 12's, and 2 10's when creating humanoid opponents. I also give them large shields and slightly better armor. Also max the first HD

My Gnoll in a high-powered game.
18 str (+4 racial)
12 dex
14 con (+2 racial)
8 int (-2)
12 wis
8 cha (-2)

That gives them +5 to attack and 1d8+4 damage. Maybe give them a bigger axe if you want more damage in 2H. Trip against heavily armored opponents since your 18str is nice.

Banded mail (+6, max dex +1) nat armor +1, and 1 dex, 2 for shield gives them an AC20 which is decent enough against a 5th or 6th level 32pt buy fighter. Better then the MM 17AC at least.

A high-powered campaign needs high-powered NPC's is what I believe. Heck, give every Gnoll a level of fighter and the weapon focus feat for another +2 to hit and you still are only a CR2.

 

[Thaumaturge]

[Spoilers]

You might try changing your tactics a bit. My party has cleared the moathouse and has just stepped foot in Nulb and we have had 3 deaths and numerous close calls. Part of the reason you are finding it easier than expected is you have 6 PCs in an adventure based on 4 PCs. Are your players being especially clever? Are you using the dynamic aspect of the dungeon effectively? Whenever the PCs start killing people there is a good chance alarms will warn the bad guys of intruders and draw them to the area.


Some thoughts.


Thaumaturge.

 

[Davelozzi]

I am currently running my party of 6 through the Temple. They have recently penetrated deep into the crater ridge mines and I have found myself having to beef up some of the NPC's to provide an adequate challenge for my group. ...
Anyone else run into this problem?

Are you having the enemies behave intelligently? I.E. when there is a battle, are others within hearing range coming to investigate, reacting appropriately, etc.? I'm just wondering, I haven't ran the adventure yet but I read it pretty thoroughly and it seems like it would be pretty difficult if you keep those kind of things in mind.

 

[Akunin]

Somebody please clarify if I'm mistaken, but arent the Challenge Ratings for encounters based on a "standard" adventuring group of 4 PCs with the standard attribute spread or 25 point buy?

6 32-point characters should be having a pretty easy time with the adventure.

I ran a group of four 28-point PCs through the Moathouse and dungeon and the encounters seemed fair enough (maybe a little easy in some places, but the foolishness of the party leader and his "poking about in places of tangible evil power" balanced things out)

 

[Davelozzi]

Oh, I missed the part about there bring six characters.

 

[Mixmaster]

Not tough enough?? ROTFLMAO!!

But seriously, 6 characters is not the standard for the encounters. CR's are for 4 standard characters.

Another thing: What level did you start them and what level are they now??

 

[MythandLore]

I am currently running my party of 6 through the Temple. They have recently penetrated deep into the crater ridge mines and I have found myself having to beef up some of the NPC's to provide an adequate challenge for my group. They were all created with the 32 point buy and there is a pretty even mix of classes and abilities in the group.

I find that the spellcasters in the temple are ok as is but the fighters and rogues are woefully underpowered. Perhaps 32 point buy is not what the game was designed for.

Anyone else run into this problem?

Dirge

LOL!
What did you expect when you have 6 pcs, IT WAS MADE FOR FOUR!
That's like that people that say, "Oh man, that Bloodstone Mines module was a peice of cake."
"That's not really possible, what level were the characters?"
"Um... We were 25th level, why?"
"Beacuse the module was made for 16th level characters."

RttToEE is not to easy because of how it's written, it's to easy beacuse your letting to many players play it, if you wanted to make it a challange they should have been a much lower level at the start of the adventure.
Next time if you have to many players to have the "recomended ammount" make sure you start everyone in the party at least one level lower then normal.
i.e. if the mod says start at 3rd level, but you have 5-6 players, start them at second level, if you have 7-8 players start them at first level, if you have more then that, get a hard module.