D&D (2024) Rules that annoy you

[Maxperson]

Actually, since hp doesn’t represent meat points, you just splash some water on their face to wake them up.

Yes they do, or at least a portion are. Otherwise you couldn't ever be down and dying from a sword thrust. That's one of the major problems with full overnight healing. It doesn't reconcile with the ability to be killed or nearly killed physically.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Yes they do, or at least a portion are. Otherwise you couldn't ever be down and dying from a sword thrust. That's one of the major problems with full overnight healing. It doesn't reconcile with the ability to be killed or nearly killed physically.

Hit points are all meat points, but some of your hp are indeed meat points. This is well-known and has been discussed for decades.

I will note that despite many attempts to do so, no one has come up with a way to break up hit points into meat points, luck points, energy points, divine-favor points, and magical-defense points that actually improved the game experience. HP being a grab-bag of different stuff just works from a gameplay perspective, and it's easier to deal with the occasional narrative oddity than it is to design a more realistic system that doesn't make the game worse.

 

[James Gasik]

Basically, that which does not kill you, did not do meat point damage.

 

[cbwjm]

Basically, that which does not kill you, did not do meat point damage.

Or maybe, that which didn't bring you to below 50% didn't do meat point damage. This is from looking at certain effects in the game where essentially the bloodied condition was used but not mentioned. Things like the champion's regeneration which only works if you're below 50%, or the life cleric's channel which could only bring people up to 50% for some reason (cure wounds can restore above 50%, not sure why life cleric's ability was held back). I think I spotted more, but these two stand out.

Note that I don't really care how people describe hit points, your killing blow is as good a description as any, but for me, I did like the idea of 50% being bloodied and starting to take actual physical damage, even if it was just a game mechanic trigger.

 

[pukunui]

Basically, that which does not kill you, did not do meat point damage.

Or maybe, that which didn't bring you to below 50% didn't do meat point damage. This is from looking at certain effects in the game where essentially the bloodied condition was used but not mentioned. Things like the champion's regeneration which only works if you're below 50%, or the life cleric's channel which could only bring people up to 50% for some reason (cure wounds can restore above 50%, not sure why life cleric's ability was held back). I think I spotted more, but these two stand out.

Note that I don't really care how people describe hit points, your killing blow is as good a description as any, but for me, I did like the idea of 50% being bloodied and starting to take actual physical damage, even if it was just a game mechanic trigger.

I really didn't want to open this can of worms ... However, if that which does not kill you does not do "meat point" damage, then why does it matter what type of damage it is? For instance, how do you take poison damage if the poison's not damaging your meat?

Also, how do you explain the various attacks that require a physical wound? The prime example in 5e is devils that inflict infernal wounds. While the text doesn't specify that it's a bleeding physical wound, this is implied by the fact that you have to "stanch" the wound with a Medicine check (or use magical healing).

Another example might be the harpoon gun on the airship in Storm King's Thunder, which specifically "impales" its target on a hit. Can't really impale a creature without dealing "meat point" damage in my book.

Yeah, this is all stuff you've just gotta handwave. It's still annoying, though.

 

[R_J_K75]

Simple answer there is just tell the player what dice to roll and why, and as DM do the + / - arithmetic for them.

In this example you-as-DM already know that spell X and condition Y

Ideally, yes you are right. I'm sure for some DMs this is easy for them to do if they know the rules well enough and play often. For me as a DM, I don't know the rules well enough to do so. Further, I think some of the onus should be on the players. They should know their characters and be able to do that math on their own and tell me. Now as the campaign goes on both me and the players begin to remember things such as what class abilities and spells do, and I'll gladly help out when I can. We just don't play enough anymore, and I don't retain that information like I used to. Regardless, it's just an aspect of the rules that I never cared for and would like to see it removed from the game. Though I doubt it ever will be.

 

[R_J_K75]

Still not sure if you're joking, trolling, or serious here.

I'm going with trolling at this point

 

[R_J_K75]

Another example might be the harpoon gun on the airship in Storm King's Thunder, which specifically "impales" its target on a hit. Can't really impale a creature without dealing "meat point" damage in my book.

Although they are abstract, I've always considered HP physical wounds. I ran a nautical game once. The players were on a boat attacking a whaling ship. Their boat had a harpoon as did the whalers. The captain of the whaling boat was clearly identifiable on the deck of the ship. One of the players on their turn decided to shoot the captain with the harpoon. He rolled a natural 20 impaling the captain. HP aside, I don't care how many he had, he was dead. It's pretty unrealistic to think that he would survive such a wound. I want to see someone bandage up that gaping hole in 6 seconds.

 

[Maxperson]

Hit points are all meat points, but some of your hp are indeed meat points. This is well-known and has been discussed for decades.

I will note that despite many attempts to do so, no one has come up with a way to break up hit points into meat points, luck points, energy points, divine-favor points, and magical-defense points that actually improved the game experience. HP being a grab-bag of different stuff just works from a gameplay perspective, and it's easier to deal with the occasional narrative oddity than it is to design a more realistic system that doesn't make the game worse.

I think the reason you are having trouble breaking up hit points into the various categories is that you aren't supposed to break them up like that. Hit points are abstract.

If your PC has 20 hit points and the orc hits you for 10, I'm not going to describe some massive wound that half kills you. I'm going to describe it as you bringing your weapon up to parry a bit too slow and while you manage to deflect the blow, the blade still cuts your cheek. That's a bit of physical damage and mostly skill hit point loss. 10 points of damage will kill people who aren't trying to avoid the blow and I don't care what level you are.

Another possible interpretation of that 10 point of damage is that as the enemy swings at you, there is a loud cry of an eagle(your god's symbol) that startles the orc, causing the death blow to go wide, cutting your cheek. Some physical and mostly divine hit point loss.

How I choose to describe you surviving the 10 points of damage that should otherwise kill you will vary depending on circumstances and mood. The point though, is that the hit points aren't divided up like 5 physical, 10 skill, 3 divine and 2 luck. Hit points just are and most of them are not physical. As has been the case since 1e when Gygax came up with the concept.

What would make the game worse in my opinion is treating hit points as 100% meat. I have no interest in playing Dragonball Z&D, where every hit is a solid one that you somehow survive, even if it blows you through a concrete wall.

 

[CreamCloud0]

any given hit is not necassarily dealing meat damage, other than the ones that are explicitly required to be, but 50% health is when you're explicitly implied to have been starting to take meat damage if you haven't already.

that's my take on it anyway, but honeslty worrying if damage is meat or not is nothing that's ever concerned me at all.