D&D 5E (2014) Ruling Question on Shapechanger & Hold Person

[W'rkncacnter]

Looking at this from another end, would a wild shaped human druid be susceptible to a hold person while in animal form?

i'd say no, since at the time they'd be a beast (or, well, not humanoid)

 

[Rabulias]

i'd say no, since at the time they'd be a beast (or, well, not humanoid)

RAW, the slaad (and the druid in my example) do not change their Type. Their respective abilities spell out the statistics that change, and all others (including Type) stay the same as the original form. Notably, the Change Shape ability of metallic dragons is the reverse, spelling out which features stay the same as the original dragon, and state that all other stats and abilities (including Type) change to those of the new form (except for class features or legendary actions of the new form).

 

[W'rkncacnter]

RAW, the slaad (and the druid in my example) do not change their Type.

i'll give you the slaad (though i'd probably still personally rule that hold person works on its humanoid form just for consistency's sake), but wild shape explicitly states your "statistics" change to that of the beast (with a few exceptions, but type is not among them), so RAW the druid's type 100% changes.

Their respective abilities spell out the statistics that change, and all others (including Type) stay the same as the original form.

the slaad's does, yeah. wild shape does not.

Notably, the Change Shape ability of metallic dragons is the reverse, spelling out which features stay the same as the original dragon, and state that all other stats and abilities (including Type) change to those of the new form (except for class features or legendary actions of the new form).

again, wild shape does the same. did not know the phrasing for metallic dragons was different, though.

...wait, we fought a chromatic dragon...now i have questions.

 

[Rabulias]

the slaad's does, yeah. wild shape does not.

I stand corrected. I misremembered the way wild shape was stated.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

You know...I usually put a lot of stock in RAW, and seek to get a really good understanding of why it's that way before I mess with it.

But in this case, no. It's easier, more satisfying, and more traditional to say that a creature's Type is based on its true form, and nothing changes that unless it specifically calls out Type as something that changes, regardless of whatever RAW or RAI would indicate.

There are very few situations where I feel like a change of Type is warranted in such a way as to add to the game experience.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I switched from no to yes.

A druid under wildshape makes themsef also differently succeptible to spells.

 

[Hriston]

Creature type is a statistic, and the slaad’s statistics, except size, remain the same while polymorphed. Therefore, the spell cannot target the slaad. I would use the rule for invalid spell targets from XGtE. I.e. the spell slot is expended, but the slaad is unaffected.

 

[jgsugden]

I picked other:

DM Inner monologue: "Hmmm - it says conflicting things. It says the slaad polymorphed into a humanoid, and that it retains all of its stats, other than size. Polymorphing isn't really a defined term. It could go either way."

DM speaking: "You cast the spell and instantly feel something is wrong. The spell is having trouble gaining purchase on the target. Give me a proficient Intelligence roll to see if you can force the spell to take hold. DC 15."

Player: "Interesting. Is it not a humanoid? ... 16."

DM: "The spell would slip right off the target if it were not a humanoid. However, it is catching a bit here - just not fully. Maybe there is something magical to the target that is not fully humanoid. Regardless, you feel the spell catch on to the target. It rolls a saving throw - 14."

Player: "That misses the DC. It was 16."

DM: "The target seizes up, slowly, but freezes in place. For a moment. It is up next and you see it start to move, but as it does so, the skin of the creature begins to lose color, transitioning to a grey pallor. The creature's face stretches rapidly, almost tearing as the mouth increases in size three times over. The hands change into three fingered claws as an extra joint on each leg suddenly snaps into a different position. The clothes melt away as the grey flesh begins to take on a rubbery consistency - except for sharp spikes that grow around the wrists, ankles and shoulders. Your passive arcana is good enough to know - this creature is a death slaad, and it just resumed its normal form."

 

[NotAYakk]

Myself? I'd give the Slaad a second save if it fails the first; if the 2nd roll passes, it starts transforming out of humanoid form, and is disadvantaged for a turn (and attacks on it have advantage).

This reflects that the creature is "truly" something else as well as humanoid, and the chaotic nature of Slaad. It also doesn't screw with the PCs, and is visually fun.

(You'll note it had advantage on the save already.)

 

[Hriston]

Key words: "Its statistics, other than its size, are the same in each form."
Two distinct forms... the aberration form and the humanoid form. Hold Person works when it's in humanoid form.

If its type is humanoid in its humanoid form and something else in its true form, then its statistics are not the same in each form.