Running away?

[jamesanthonyspencer]

OK so I looked threw the PHB, DMG and even Googled it a bit but I can't seem to find any sort of rules for the players running away from an encounter they are losing. It makes sense that it would be a skill challenge, or is it as simple as just moving your speed until you walk off the map. So, some official rules here would be great but some personal experience and examples for what you have seen or done might help me get creative. Thanks for any help you can give.


P.S. - Also had a little trouble with the whole party dieing on there second encounter ever on our 1st game together, it was a hard level (+1 above players) encounter but I didn't expect them to all die. As a new DM any pointers?

 

[On Puget Sound]

The main question is, do you as the DM want them to get away easily?

If you do, then just let them go. The bad guys hurl taunts and insults, or if they are unintelligent creatures they squabble over the carcass of a fallen creature (monster or PC). Typically you would choose this if you realized the encounter was a bad one and wanted to bail out before the TPK.

If you don't, then there are several options:
Skill challenge: diplomacy to bribe your way free, nature to know the monster's favorite food and toss it some as a distraction, athletics/ acrobatics/ endurance to outrun or outmaneuver it, stealth to hide till it loses interest, streetwise to remember a shortcut through the sewers, arcana to improvise a distracting spell....

Running battle: Just stay in initiative order and continue turn by turn. If the characters want to run away they will have to spend move actions to increase the distance, then use ranged attacks and effects that slow the opposition until they can get far enough away so that the encounter is effectively over. Skills as mentioned in the skill challenge above might be used in a blended "fighting challenge", where each success adds squares of distance and each failure lets the monsters get closer.

Typically you'd choose not to make it easy because the alternative is more fun, or because the players made a bad choice (which is not the same as an unlucky guess or a few bad rolls) and you want that choice to have consequences.

 

[On Puget Sound]

Regarding your TPK, a few more details might help us give better advice. If a +1 level encounter kills everyone, there is usually something wrong with either the encounter, the party's tactics, or the interpretation of the rules.

Encounter level is not the only measure of difficulty. If the party has no attack beyond range 10, and I set them against harpies who fly 15 squares above them and drop rocks until they all die, it doesn't matter that the harpies were low level minions; I've made a bad encounter for this party. Similarly, if the encounter takes place near a 100' cliff and the monster has an at-will push attack, I've made a bad encounter if my party's level is too low to survive that fall. If all the spellcaster's powers are fire-based, and I attack with lava elementals... well, to be honest, that's a badly designed spellcaster and doing this once or twice per level is probably a good way to encourage a more versatile build. But doing it in every 2nd encounter is punishing a character for having a theme.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

P.S. - Also had a little trouble with the whole party dieing on there second encounter ever on our 1st game together, it was a hard level (+1 above players) encounter but I didn't expect them to all die. As a new DM any pointers?

Sounds like the PP pretty well covered the disengagement thing.

As for avoiding TPKs there is no sure way. However you can MITIGATE them. The PCs may be captured instead of killed for instance. This won't always work, but it can be a good out now and then. It can lead to great plot hooks too.

Level+1 is anywhere from easy for experienced tactical players to (obviously) in a few cases deadly. It is certainly a reasonable level of encounter to have. Do note that the DMG does give advice beyond just an XP budget though. You don't have to follow it all the time but things like not using level+8 monsters and such is probably good to stick with.

There are also a few monsters that are notoriously deadly. Needlefang Drake Swarm has always been the most infamous as it seems like something you can safely use at level 1 but this monster is just crazy overpowered. Some other monsters can be pretty nasty in certain combinations too. An amusing one is Halfling Slingers.

Get the errata document from the WotC site. Some of these monsters have been corrected, so if you were using one of them that might explain it. There are only a very few that are overpowered (most monsters are underpowered actually, MM3 monsters for instance do at least 25% more damage and often 50% more).

 

[jamesanthonyspencer]

Regarding your TPK, a few more details might help us give better advice. If a +1 level encounter kills everyone, there is usually something wrong with either the encounter, the party's tactics, or the interpretation of the rules.

The Party - 4 lvl 1 characters, a seeker, a warlock, a fighter and a battlemind

The Enemy - Kobolds, 1 lvl kobold skirmisher, 3 lvl 2 kobold dragonshields and 1 lvl 3 kobold wyrmpriest (acid)

Also the party was ambushed, which started them off pretty beat up, and the party was having some bad rolls while the enemies had 4 crits during the course of the encounter. 3 of the 4 players are brand new to D&D and they did have some pretty weak team tactics. I feel bad for them, and it makes me feel like I did something wrong, still learning I guess. Any advice?

 

[darjr]

eh, kill em all and let G....

Uh....

I was in a game where the fighters ran interference so the rest of the party could run, run, run. I didn't realize at the time that part of the plan was to come back and collect what was left of my character. It actually worked really well. My fighter locked up the snipers after moving past the front line and taking a swackload of damage. The mage, after getting through, locked down the front line so my fighter could join them. He almost didn't make it.

the DM had them do what was mentioned above, taunt us and squabble so our characters could get away.

As far as a TPK the first Penny Arcade podcast had a great idea in it, don't kill the party. For example in the Dark Sun game day adventure I TPK'd, and instead of ending it there I had the party wake up, tied up, by the elves, to be sold to the slavers for the arena. They had to sneak their way out and eventually fight again but they got the drop on the elves.

 

[Mengu]

For level 1 characters who are new to the game, things can go bad very quickly, especially in the event of an ambush, even more so without a leader to bounce back from the ambush.

I'd suggest trying again with a new group, with someone playing a leader, at least until you get a bit more familiar with the rules. And between an ambush round, bad initiative, and some bad attack rolls from the PC's, an encounter can turn sour quickly. If you don't want a TPK, but see it coming, perhaps the ambushers might decide to subdue the PC's and interrogate them for information. This might give them a chance to escape later.

As for running away, typically it's just a matter of turning around and running away. If the enemies decide to give chase, you could turn it into a skill challenge. Or it's possible the enemies aren't doing too hot either, or they have a place to protect and they don't give chase.

 

[LostSoul]

I am planning on creating a sub-system which uses a Skill Challenge for this exact thing.

The idea floating around in my head now is that there will be a number of fictional triggers that set the sub-system in motion. Those triggers will set the Complexity; it'll probably start at 12 and descend from there.

I'm not exactly sure how it will work yet, so I have some thinking to do.

 

[Dan'L]

The Party - 4 lvl 1 characters, a seeker, a warlock, a fighter and a battlemind

The Enemy - Kobolds, 1 lvl kobold skirmisher, 3 lvl 2 kobold dragonshields and 1 lvl 3 kobold wyrmpriest (acid)

Also the party was ambushed, which started them off pretty beat up, and the party was having some bad rolls while the enemies had 4 crits during the course of the encounter. 3 of the 4 players are brand new to D&D and they did have some pretty weak team tactics. I feel bad for them, and it makes me feel like I did something wrong, still learning I guess. Any advice?

Just a quick note: for a party of 4 characters, this is actually a level +2 encounter. But that should still be within the reach of a party.

Combats can get really swingy with a leaderless party. Recovering from a run of cold dice is really hampered, and player tactics become crucial. As soon as one PC drops unconscious the party can be at a huge loss of offense, since you lose both the standard action attack of the downed PC and at least one standard action Heal check/administering of a potion of healing if the party cares enough to help their downed ally.

There's not really a lot that a DM can do in this kind of situation, other than verbally encouraging the players to work together and handing out copious healing potions.

-Dan'L

 

[ExploderWizard]

Pulling out of an encounter gone bad should always be an option unless the PC's are confined to some kind of "cage match" battle. The difficulties of doing so can vary considerably depending on who or what the party is fighting. There are some factors that may be of influence to the difficulty level.

1) Intelligence:

Is the party fighting a dumb hungry beast, a mindless guardian automaton, or guards of a somewhat intelligent variety?

A beast might be delayed by throwing down food during the chase. If a critter is hungry then it will probably stop for something edible that isn't currently trying to hurt it.

Treasure is another slowing technique that intelligent but dimwittted creatures like kobolds might fall for. Monsters that recognize the value of treasure might pick up shiny baubles.

Mindless constructs might have orders not to go to far from what they are guarding.

2) Motivation:

This will be situational. Guards of at least something appoaching human intelligence that are defending a secret base will care more about making sure intruders don't get away than any other concern (considering reporting failure in this regard could earn a death sentence from their leader!)

These types of enemies will be the most tenacious pursuers and the hardest to get away from assuming the party doesn't seriously outclass them in speed/evasion.

3) Captivity:

In many cases the more organized and intelligent the enemy is the more likely they will take an interest in captives. A hungry dire wolf just wants a meal and is unlikely to be reasoned with. Guards might have orders to try and capture intruders because the leaders may want to find out if anyone else knows about their secret lair before killing the captives.

Largely this means that the pursuers that are the hardest to get away from are also the most likely to take captives. This can be used to help mitigate TPKs.

Intelligence will also determine how difficult escape will be for the PCs if they do get captured. Getting captured by a bunch of stupid orcs might result in the PC's being sent out to work and given tools/weapons and guarded by lazy/inattentive taskmasters *

(sorry Forest Oracle- handing a dwarf an AXE and commanding that he chop wood guarded by a single orc is the epitome of captive mismanagement )

Savvy, competent operations might completely strip and bind the captives, blindfold, gag and separate them to prohibit communication and limit sensory input, and interrogate them separately- the kinds of things that PCs might do to captives that they deem very dangerous.

Escape from these types should be difficult but not impossible unless the campaign is ending.


So, just keep in mind who or what the PC's are running from and you can use common sense to help determine how easy escape might be.