D&D 4E Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)

[the Jester]

I lurve me a good skill challenge, but I too have found that the best ones are those that kind of stretch the system- sometimes there are special consequences for failing in certain ways or extra benefits for certain actions or types of successes, or maybe it's "keep trying until you get enough successes, you can't fail out but each failure deals damage", etc.

I agree with PC that it's often good not to get too fiddly, but I would say that there is a time for it. What I sometimes do is try to anticipate my players' most likely approaches to a SC and prepare for those. Sometimes I set up different skill DCs for the same skill depending on how it's used, too.

For instance, here's a SC that I anticipate using sometime in my next 2 sessions. The setup is that the pcs encounter a party of goliaths. Unbeknownst to them, one of the goliaths is the sister of a dead pc, Cavemouth, who took up the job of sheriff for the party and died, so she blames them for it. The skill challenge's failure might end in a combat (worth less xp than completing the SC, and with only 75 gp in treasure) and will affect the campaign's future- the goliaths rule over a set of hills not far south of the border of the small nation the party is building, so they could be important allies or enemies, and this challenge will help determine which it will be. So in this case, the consequences of success or failure are (mostly) obscured from the pcs.

GOLIATH HUNTING PARTY (EL 10; 2650 xp for combat; or EL 11; 3000 xp for skill challenge)
The pcs encounter a group of goliaths led by Klucktim, a burly female. In truth, she is Cavemouth's sister, but she won't mention this unless asked about him directly. If she realizes that they are the authorities that led to her brother's death, she will grow increasingly aggressive. The pcs must engage in a skill challenge to avoid losing face with the goliaths and possibly ending up in a fight.

ROLEPLAYING THE SKILL CHALLENGE (Level 11 Skill Challenge, Complexity 5: 12 successes before 3 failures)
As soon as she realizes who the pcs are, Klucktim's demeanor cools and she begins accusing them of failing to safeguard their area and people. She berates them for the lives lost in their name, challenges them to show their strength in a contest of physical prowess and mocks them for any refusal.

Complications: If the pcs speak about Cavemouth in a disparaging way, they earn an automatic red failure.

Successfully completing the skill challenge means that Klucktim is mollified and the pcs earn some respect in the eyes of the goliaths, who may one day be necessary allies for our heroes.

Failure means that the goliaths will take a stance of aggressive dislike of the pcs' burgeoning nation, and if combat breaks out, the pcs earn less xp than they would for succeeding at the skill challenge. Additionally, if the pcs have two or more red failures, the goliaths attack.

The pcs can try any tack they wish in this skill challenge. Some of their possible approaches and the skills and DCs involved include:

Deduce the Origin of Klucktim's anger: The pcs may try to figure out why she is so mad at them. This requires an Insight check (DC 25, as she is not forthcoming; this gives one success in the challenge) or asking her about it directly (which may be helpful, but does NOT yield a success in the skill challenge). Failing the Insight check does not yield a failure on the challenge.

Sooth Her with Words: The pcs can try to talk Klucktim down from her anger. This involves the use of Bluff (DC 17) to deceive her in some fashion (especially outlandish lies should have a commensurately harder DC) or Diplomacy (DC 24) to try to sooth her. In addition, a pc can use Insight (DC 15) to give the next Bluff or Diplomacy check a +2 bonus; failure indicates a -2 penalty. Failed checks (except for Insight) count as failures on the skill challenge; a failed Bluff check counts as a red failure.

Show Her our Worth: The pcs can attempt to show their worthiness via physical contests. She will vie against them in climbing, running, wrestling or whatever other physical trial they would care to join her in. The whole time she belittles them, at least until they gain at least 3 successes this way. The pcs will almost certainly lose the contests, but they don't have to win to gain successes, they just have to show their spirit. This approach might use Acrobatics (DC 19, since this is a type of physical activity that goliaths are less skilled at), Athletics (DC 24) or Endurance (DC 24). A character earning a success with Athletics or Endurance can also turn a red failure into a normal failure. Failed checks earn failures on the skill challenge, but only if the result is 18 or lower; on an Athletics or Endurance result of 19-23, the goliaths are willing to make allowances for the pcs' small stature.

Show Respect to the Spirits of the Earth: Pcs might attempt to mollify Klucktim by showing respect for the goliath faith, which venerates the primal spirits. A character might attempt to Bluff (DC 19) his way through this approach; alternatively, either Nature (DC 19) or Religion (DC 19) will allow him to show sufficient respect to earn a grudging nod from the hunting party.

 

[Fajitas]

I like this idea a lot. Do they stack?

I've absolutely allowed them to stack-- I think they blew three on one roll once, but it was a very, very, very important roll.

It's also a lot of fun to watch them stockpile bennies on relatively easy encounters and then blow 'em all at once on a really hard one. Lets me through things at them that are tougher than one might otherwise like without feeling too bad.

 

[The Axe]

No, seriously. the trick is not over-thinking it. The awful thing for skill challenges is to get too fiddly - "I'll specify ahead of time which skills can be used, which skills can't, and which ones have an altered DC." That just sucks all the joy out of the prep time. If you do it on the fly, here's my guideline:

Set a starting DC based on how hard the challenge should be (medium is usually appropriate). A PC suggests a skill and describes how they'll use it to succeed. If you say "That makes total sense!", it's relatively easy, knock 2 off the DC target; if you say "that's reasonable," it's the normal DC target; if you raise an eyebrow and slowly say "yeahhhhhh.." in that tone of voice, add 2 or more to the DC or (if it's really inappropriate) disallow it. This lets the players be creative while still rewarding the more reasonable skills.

Feel free to play around with timing, by the way. For example, this skill challenge wasn't constrained to rounds. Multiple rounds passed as they ran, because I wanted to move them from place to place to keep the fight interesting.

Actually, I was thinking I have more trouble finding good ideas and designing interesting challenges that figuring out the mechanics---you've helped with the latter, though.

 

[Siuis]

So I notice with a certain level of distress that there seems to be no Story Hour for this game. And Sagiro makes it horrible.

Your writing style lends itself so well to relaying these stories that I fond mysel all geared up to hear about a situation- and it doesn't manifest. It's almost painful, to turn my face to a sun that doesn't shine. Ah well. Absence and fondness, and all that :3

 

[Piratecat]

My players keep nudging me as well. Part of it is a time issue, or more realistically a "making the time" issue.

 

[WisdomLikeSilence]

Pcat, running a game is a huge time commitment. Writing a story hour is another huge time commitment. You have a job, a wife, and a life. Much as I enjoy your writing, I don't begrudge the lack of a story hour. So only contemplate doing one if it really works for you, OK?

 

[Cerebral Paladin]

To echo WLS (who I apparently can't give XP to right now), much as I would love to be able to read another PCat Storyhour, he should only take it on if it's something he wants to do--something where he'd rather spend the time on it than doing other things, because there are hours and hours of work that go into that.

 

[Vargo]

Heck, I'd be happy with a quick writeup of what happened in the conclusion of his last campaign. (Defenders of Daybreak?)

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Heck, I'd be happy with a quick writeup of what happened in the conclusion of his last campaign. (Defenders of Daybreak?)

QFT. There is a small part of me that feels like was a TV that got cancelled just before they finally finished it.

Piratecat, you realise this makes you the Joss Whedon of ENworld, right?

 

[Plane Sailing]

Heck, I'd be happy with a quick writeup of what happened in the conclusion of his last campaign. (Defenders of Daybreak?)

"the good guys won"