Ryan Dancey on Redefining the Hobby (Updated: time elements in a storytelling game)

[buzz]

A more elegant solution might be, "Make it less work to DM."

I want to sign up for your newsletter AND have your baby.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I posted to Ryan's blog, but I might as well post here.

I don't think the solution to the problem of "DMing is too hard" is necessarily "Distribute the work amongst the entire group."

A more elegant solution might be, "Make it less work to DM."

For myself, it's just cost vs benefit, like everything else. As a DM, if I spend lots of work and get lots of reward I'm fine, little work for little fun is bleh anyway. I think the work isn't a problem for my enjoyment of the game, but only whether the players reward that work with a fun experience for all.

I think Ryan has some interesting ideas. Regardless of where this is heading, I'm sure the end result will be worth watching. It's about time that someone in this hobby started shaking things up.

It's a conundrum for me. I always appreciate what Ryan Dancey says, he's a very important opinion.
On the other hand, anything based on the Comic & Games Retailer information is worthless as a point of discussion IMO, so it goes counter to me reading much of the thread.

The self-selected, limited draw nature of the survey, the fact that it doesn't include sales to the book trade and Massive Online Retailers like buy.com and amazon.com, it's worthless. As prices of books go up, discount sales become a larger percentage, meaning that a system that tracks only the declining half of the equation is just worthless....

Now, I trust Ryan Dancey to a great extent, and he says other sources, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and all... but it's just hard!

 

[Glyfair]

I meant more that I don't think the people who attend GenCon are some special breed of gamer. I don't think the increased indie presence there (and many other cons) is something to be casually dismissed. Otherwise, you could dismiss anyone's presence there. E.g., that ENWorld grew to point that they now have a booth. This stuff matters.

I'll argue that the typical GenCon attendee is more of a "committed gamer" than the typical gamer. Eliminate the locals who go because it is nearby and you probably have almost all committed gamers (and those traveling with committed gamers).

That crowd is the sort that is more likely to appreciate the indie-RPG table. In fact, many of them would probably be satisfied finding a game that has a gem buried in a horrible impenetrable system. Not that there isn't quality out there, just that search is often the reason they get explored.

Right now I would love to have a monthly game where we try a new system each time. I don't think I have the group to do it, but some are interested. Even then, I think I would be the one introducing the new games most of the time.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

emphasizing the "story telling" nature of RPGs is disaster if you ask me, look how much people like to sit at home with the family and friends and tell each other original stories...

You mean, nearly all parents of young children? It would be an amazing day if RPGs were half as successful as that.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm noticing that when we talk about Dancey, there's something of a routine where people are finding the most objectionable thing on the page and responding to that.

I think that's pretty much any message board discussing anything controversial on the Internet.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The absolute hatred of "story" among many at this site is fine, it's opinions after all, but to insist it can't be financially successful is to ignore the success of White Wolf, which very explicitly is about telling stories, even going so far as to rename RPG elements in line with that: Storyteller, Chronicle, etc.

If "story" doesn't work for you, fine. But you are not the market. None of us is, whatever we like or don't like.

 

[Sundragon2012]

I think that Ryan has a point.

In 24yrs I have been a DM the vast majority of the time. I don't do dungeoncrawls save as part of the overarching plot (created by myself and my players in concert). I loathe DMing them for anyting but a brief time and loathe playing in them slightly less. The fact is, the best dungeoncrawl I have ever participated in wasn't D&D but was Oblivion for the Xbox360 and the PC. It was more fun than any tabletop dungeoncrawl because that is what it was and that is what it excelled at....ok there was a story but a story that merely linked a number of rather cool dungeons, even dungoens in hell.

D&D cannot compete with this, no way. D&D needs to be whatever the players and DMs want it to be, but officially WoTC needs to play to the strengths of the game ie. the social element, the playing of a role and the potential to have an immersive experience in a world of infinite possibiliy. If one is going for the thrill of the kill, cool magical effects, great visuals and a more superficial experience, CRPGs beat D&D any day. CRPGs cannot compete with Tabletop RPGs in the deeper aspects of the game.



Sundragon

 

[jasin]

It's rather late as I'm reading this so I might be missing something, but how is the concept of rules being fed back into the community connected to the concept of distributed DM-ing?

The rules being fed back into the community and creating a reputation economy made perhaps the majority of the traffic on D&D newsgroups and forums in early 3E days... and still makes a decent percentage now. It works just like Ryan describes, with people who are good at writing rules getting more exposure and their rules being more likely to be adopted by others.

In fact, if I had to pick a single thing which made up my mind to switch from 2E to 3E, it was a homebrew class for unarmoured, agile, somewhat mystical swordmen like the characters from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon: Hong Ooi's martial artist.

This kind of vitality, with people constantly crafting new rules to fill perceived gaps and subjecting them to the review of the community, was a great part of the attraction of early 3E for me, and I'd very much like to see it return. (In fact, it's one of the strengths of P&P RPGs compared to MMORPGs for me: the ability to tweak the game to my own tastes, in different ways for different campaigns, rather than having to hope that the developer will publish the add-on I'd like.) But I don't really see how it's connected with Ryan's idea of distributing the tasks of a DM to multiple people in the group.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

It's rather late as I'm reading this so I might be missing something, but how is the concept of rules being fed back into the community connected to the concept of distributed DM-ing?

At a guess, Ryan probably sees Distributed DMing and Distributed Development as benefiting from many of the same creative processes.

Is that true? I'm not really sure, but it seems to be the link he's drawing and it is an intriguing one.

Alternately, Ryan may just be pushing the distributed development model he's long advocated alongside his new concept. I imagine he'll chime in here or on his blog and explain which, or come at it from a completely different direction.

 

[HeinorNY]

The Evocation school alone is little more than (energy type)+(ray or AoE)+(maximum caster level).

Something like this?

[Energy][Attack]
Evocation [energy]
Level: 1 (Touch), 2 (Ray), 3 (Line and Burst)
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch, Close (Ray), 120ft. (Line), Long (Burst)
Area/Effect: Touch attack (Touch), Ranged touch attack (Ray), 5ft wide line (Line), 20ft. radius burst (Burst).
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No (Touch and Ray), Yes (Line and Burst), Fortitude half (cold, electricity and sonic), Reflex half (acid and fire)
Spell Resistance: Yes

When you learn this spell you determine its energy type and attack type. Once chosen, you cannot change it unless you learn the spell again and choose a different combination of energy type and attack type. The attack type determines the spell’s range, area, saving throw and level. Each combination is a different spell on your list of spells.
Energy types are: acid, cold, fire, electricity and sonic. Attack types are: touch, ray, line and burst.

Acid: The spell deals 1d4 points of damage per caster level and it deals half that damage in the following round. If the spell allows a saving throw, succeeding in the saving throw cancels the extra damage.

Cold: The spell deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level and the target(s) is(are) slowed for 1d4 rounds. If the spell allows a saving throw, succeeding in the saving throw cancels the slowing effect.

Fire: The spell deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level and it sets the target(s) on fire. If the spell allows a saving throw, succeeding in the saving throw prevents the target from being caught on fire. The DC for extinguishing the fire on further rounds is the same used for the spell.

Electricity: The spell deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level and the target(s) is(are) dazed for one round. If the spell allows a saving throw, succeeding in the saving throw cancels the dazing effect.

Sonic: The spell deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level and the target(s) is(are) stunned for one round. If the spell allows a saving throw, succeeding in the saving throw cancels the stunning effect. Sonic damage deals only half damage to living creatures, but full damage to objects.