D&D 5E Sacrosant's sacrosanct guide to the most sacrosanct fighting styles

[Paul Farquhar]

As an Archer, would you take that instead of permanent +2 attack?

Or as a tank instead of +1 AC?

If I was a battlemaster, 50%/50%, If I had Martial Adept, definitely, otherwise, no.

Or as a TWF instead of +3 to +5 damage per round?

TWF is garbage on a fighter, and even worse on a ranger. I wouldn't touch it unless I was a rogue or multiclassed.

 

[Horwath]

If I was a battlemaster, 50%/50%, If I had Martial Adept, definitely, otherwise, no.


TWF is garbage on a fighter, and even worse on a ranger. I wouldn't touch it unless I was a rogue or multiclassed.

I am not saying about twoweapon fighting as a model in 5E(which is by taking bonus action garbage), I am talking that, if you make that concept for your character, TWF style is far better than one manuevar per short rest.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I am not saying about twoweapon fighting as a model in 5E(which is by taking bonus action garbage), I am talking that, if you make that concept for your character, TWF style is far better than one manuevar per short rest.

Well, yeah, choosing the style that matches your style is usually a good choice....

 

[DND_Reborn]

Actually, it varies depending on what weapon you are using, from +1.3 for a two handed sword or maul, +1 for a double bladed scimitar, +0.83 for a great axe, +0.8 for most pole arms and versatile weapons, +0.53 for a greatclub or staff, +0.5 for a PAM or DBS bonus attack.

Not a big deal, but FWIW some of your numbers are a bit off I think.

Two-handed damage roll: GWF damage (improvement)
1d4: 3.00 (+0.50) - for PAM and DBS bonus
1d8: 5.25 (+0.75) - such as a quarterstaff
1d10: 6.30 (+0.80) - a longsword for example
1d12: 7.33 (+0.83) - mabye a greataxe
2d4: 6.00 (+1.00) - the double-bladed scimitar
2d6: 8.33 (+1.33) - a greatsword or maul

EDITED to fix my own mistakes on d10 and d12 weapons!

Regardless, the benefit is not even close to Dueling unless you have a crit-fishing build, but even then the increase leaves it short of Dueling.

I am thinking of removing Dueling and GWF, and instead call Dueling "Single Weapon Fighting" which offers the same +2 to damage when you are wielding only one weapon (whether one-handed or two-handed).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Not a big deal, but FWIW some of your numbers are a bit off I think.

Two-handed damage roll: GWF damage (improvement)
1d8: 5.25 (+0.75) - such as a quarterstaff - this is correct, my subtraction was off
1d10: 6.20 (+0.70) - a longsword for example - I get 6.30 = (5.5+5.5+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10)/10
1d12: 7.25 (+0.75) - mabye a greataxe - I get 7.3 recurring = (6.5+6.5+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12)/12
2d6: 8.33 (+1.33) - a greatsword or maul - actually 1.3 recurring, I rounded to 2 SF

Regardless, the benefit is not even close to Dueling unless you have a crit-fishing build, but even then the increase leaves it short of Dueling.

Duelling is limited by only working with 1d8 or worse weapons, so it caps at 6.5. It's better than a GWS polearm, but worse than a GWS with greataxe or 2H sword. Duelling also gives AC benefits OC.

+ you can't combine duelling with GWF or PAM.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Duelling is limited by only working with 1d8 or worse weapons, so it caps at 6.5. It's better than a GWF polearm, but worse than a GWF with greataxe or 2H sword. Duelling also gives AC benefits OC.

LOL! My spreadsheet had 8 repeated twice (for 8 and 9) so that was my mistake. That was why I had different numbers for d10 and d12. Sorry about that. Everything looks good now and I'll update my post.

I meant the bonus to damage for Dueling is better in all cases than GWF. The +2 is much better in most cases, and the best GWF offers is +1.33 (only two-thirds Dueling).

And as you point out, the weaker weapon damage of Dueling is offset by the fact you can wield a shield.

For both those reasons, Dueling is overall a better style IMO. True, it doesn't offer the full damage potential of wielding two-handed weapons, but it has the AC benefit--which offsets that factor.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

With AC, it depends what you are aiming for. But I would suggest that if you are planning on using a polearm it's worth considering something other than GWS.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Based on discussion, I've made some changes to the ratings. See? I'm not totally unreasonable Even if I have to change the title of this thread, or keep it and have it being incredibly ironic...

I did not change the cantrip feats because I'm not getting hung up on the title of the feature (fighting style), but viewing it through the lens of a class feature. And getting cantrips is a huge benefit. It also address the oft mentioned complaint of fighters not having any out of combat functionality, and if that is fixed, then it must be a really great feature.

Also, while I did give tunnel fighter a great rating, that's great as in mechanical bonus, not great in what it does for the game. Yeah, it's totally broken.

 

[TwoSix]

LOL! My spreadsheet had 8 repeated twice (for 8 and 9) so that was my mistake. That was why I had different numbers for d10 and d12. Sorry about that. Everything looks good now and I'll update my post.

I meant the bonus to damage for Dueling is better in all cases than GWF. The +2 is much better in most cases, and the best GWF offers is +1.33 (only two-thirds Dueling).

And as you point out, the weaker weapon damage of Dueling is offset by the fact you can wield a shield.

For both those reasons, Dueling is overall a better style IMO. True, it doesn't offer the full damage potential of wielding two-handed weapons, but it has the AC benefit--which offsets that factor.

If you don't want to pull out a spreadsheet, the damage increase for 1dN reroll and keep 1s and 2s is (N-2)/N. The new damage is (N+4)(N-1)/2N.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If you don't want to pull out a spreadsheet, the damage increase for 1dN reroll and keep 1s and 2s is (N-2)/N. The new damage is (N+4)(N-1)/2N.

I was using it to play around with other variations for GWF so it was convenient, but that is cool to know.