Quasqueton
First Post
Using just the core rules, how easy is it to make a samurai? How would you build one? Say, 3rd level character.
Quasqueton
Quasqueton
Samurai in the core rules
- Thread starter Quasqueton
- Start date
The Shaman
First Post
Fighter 3 or Fighter 2/Bard 1.
Snapshot from many gaming tables (originally posted on the WotC d20 Fantasy board)...
PC: "I wanna play a samurai!"
GM: "Okay, well, that's basically a lawful-aligned fighter."
PC: "No, no! Samurai were the greatest warriors ever! Better than the standard fighter! I made up this new core class..."
GM: "He's a fighter. Use the bonus feats to create your idea of the ideal samurai."
PC: "But he should have more skill points! He's courtly!"
GM: "So was a European knight. Go to the library and check out a book about John of Gaunt. Now roll up your fighter."
PC: "But a samurai has a code!"
GM: "So does a paladin. Just write it down for me and roleplay it as your fighter."
PC: (fumes for a moment) "I think I'll be a ninja instead."
GM: "Okay, well, that's a rogue."
PC: "No, no! Ninja were the greatest assassins ever!..."
Snapshot from many gaming tables (originally posted on the WotC d20 Fantasy board)...
PC: "I wanna play a samurai!"
GM: "Okay, well, that's basically a lawful-aligned fighter."
PC: "No, no! Samurai were the greatest warriors ever! Better than the standard fighter! I made up this new core class..."
GM: "He's a fighter. Use the bonus feats to create your idea of the ideal samurai."
PC: "But he should have more skill points! He's courtly!"
GM: "So was a European knight. Go to the library and check out a book about John of Gaunt. Now roll up your fighter."
PC: "But a samurai has a code!"
GM: "So does a paladin. Just write it down for me and roleplay it as your fighter."
PC: (fumes for a moment) "I think I'll be a ninja instead."
GM: "Okay, well, that's a rogue."
PC: "No, no! Ninja were the greatest assassins ever!..."
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Macbeth
First Post
Yeah, a samurai could (and perhaps should) be a fighter or paladin, possibly with some bard or even ranger levels.
On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with using a more specific core class if you want to. I play a samurai in my Friday night game, and we use a slightly modified Complete Warrior samurai (droped the two weapon stuff, replaced it with two handed weapon stuff for my nagamaki). However, not all samurai have levels in that class, it's just a more specific class for those who like the idea. Really, I think the core classes are all you need, but that doesn't mean you can't use extra base classes if you like them. My samurai could just be a fighter, and really he wouldn't be that different, but by opting for the samurai class I get some cool intimidate stuff and a few other things that I think make for an interesting character.
On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with using a more specific core class if you want to. I play a samurai in my Friday night game, and we use a slightly modified Complete Warrior samurai (droped the two weapon stuff, replaced it with two handed weapon stuff for my nagamaki). However, not all samurai have levels in that class, it's just a more specific class for those who like the idea. Really, I think the core classes are all you need, but that doesn't mean you can't use extra base classes if you like them. My samurai could just be a fighter, and really he wouldn't be that different, but by opting for the samurai class I get some cool intimidate stuff and a few other things that I think make for an interesting character.
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
*pets the OA Samurai* 
But using the Core only? I'd say just go with a Fighter and put a high mod in Cha. Sure, you won't be great at certain 'courtly' skills, but cross class is better than nothing at all.
Of course, on the Ninja matter I completely agree. They're just Rogues...arguably with a worse BAB. But the again, that depends on where you got your Ninja info from.
But using the Core only? I'd say just go with a Fighter and put a high mod in Cha. Sure, you won't be great at certain 'courtly' skills, but cross class is better than nothing at all.
Of course, on the Ninja matter I completely agree. They're just Rogues...arguably with a worse BAB. But the again, that depends on where you got your Ninja info from.
Altamont Ravenard
Explorer
Maybe LN Human Rog1/Fighter2
Why Rogue? So the character has skill points to invest in social skills. Also, 1d6 of sneak attack could represent a Iajutsu attack (if the opponent is flat-footed).
I also liked the Bard1/Fighter2 idea (can't be Lawful, though). Bardic music could take the form of a Kiai shout, although it would be to encourage his allies instead of scaring off his enemies. Possible choices for spells could be Daze, Know Direction, Resistance, Flare maybe?
A good charisma and high Intimidate skill would be a must, IMO.
The Samurai Code would be a totally RP element.
For feats, you'll have 5 (level 1, human, fighter level 1, fighter level 2, level 3).
Skill Focus (Intimidate)
Improved Initiative
Power Attack
Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
Iron Will
(I didn't put EWP (BS) because IMO the sword will mainly be used two-handed.)
For skills, if you start off with Rogue:
- Climb
- Diplomacy
- Escape Artist
- Gather Information
- Intimidate
- Jump
- Listen
- Perform (No theatre)
- Ride
- Sense Motive
For equipment, mw Bastard Sword, mw Banded mail, mw mighty composite longbow.
AR
Why Rogue? So the character has skill points to invest in social skills. Also, 1d6 of sneak attack could represent a Iajutsu attack (if the opponent is flat-footed).
I also liked the Bard1/Fighter2 idea (can't be Lawful, though). Bardic music could take the form of a Kiai shout, although it would be to encourage his allies instead of scaring off his enemies. Possible choices for spells could be Daze, Know Direction, Resistance, Flare maybe?
A good charisma and high Intimidate skill would be a must, IMO.
The Samurai Code would be a totally RP element.
For feats, you'll have 5 (level 1, human, fighter level 1, fighter level 2, level 3).
Skill Focus (Intimidate)
Improved Initiative
Power Attack
Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
Iron Will
(I didn't put EWP (BS) because IMO the sword will mainly be used two-handed.)
For skills, if you start off with Rogue:
- Climb
- Diplomacy
- Escape Artist
- Gather Information
- Intimidate
- Jump
- Listen
- Perform (No theatre)
- Ride
- Sense Motive
For equipment, mw Bastard Sword, mw Banded mail, mw mighty composite longbow.
AR
Klaus
First Post
Let's see...
Aristocrat 1/Ftr 2:
S 15 D 12 C 14 I 8 W 10 Ch 13 (elite array, YMMV)
HD 1d8+2 plus 2d10+4
BAB +2, Saves F+5 R+1 W+2
Skills: Diplomacy +5, Handle Animal +2, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (nobility) +1, Ride +4
Feats: 1st - Weapon Focus (bastard sword)
Ftr bonus 1 - Power Attack
Ftr bonus 2 - Mounted Combat
3rd - Mounted Archery
Equipment: Mw Bastard Sword, Mw Mighty Composite Longbow (+2 Str bonus), Mw Splint Mail (or Banded, or Breastplate), Mw Buckler (kote), light warhorse.
Aristocrat 1/Ftr 2:
S 15 D 12 C 14 I 8 W 10 Ch 13 (elite array, YMMV)
HD 1d8+2 plus 2d10+4
BAB +2, Saves F+5 R+1 W+2
Skills: Diplomacy +5, Handle Animal +2, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (nobility) +1, Ride +4
Feats: 1st - Weapon Focus (bastard sword)
Ftr bonus 1 - Power Attack
Ftr bonus 2 - Mounted Combat
3rd - Mounted Archery
Equipment: Mw Bastard Sword, Mw Mighty Composite Longbow (+2 Str bonus), Mw Splint Mail (or Banded, or Breastplate), Mw Buckler (kote), light warhorse.
Remathilis
Legend
Human Paladin 3
High Str/Dex/Con/Cha.
Ride, Diplomacy, Craft (Calligraphy or other oriental art), Sense Motive, Know: Royalty
1st) Imp Initative
3rd) Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword or Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword (depends on if you want 1 or 2 handed katana)
Replace the Paladin Code with the Samurai Code of Bushido.
Handwave the divine part as Ki/Kiai/Chi powers.
Wear Medium Armor (Scale), get a bastard sword, short sword, and comp. short bow.
Tada!
High Str/Dex/Con/Cha.
Ride, Diplomacy, Craft (Calligraphy or other oriental art), Sense Motive, Know: Royalty
1st) Imp Initative
3rd) Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword or Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword (depends on if you want 1 or 2 handed katana)
Replace the Paladin Code with the Samurai Code of Bushido.
Handwave the divine part as Ki/Kiai/Chi powers.
Wear Medium Armor (Scale), get a bastard sword, short sword, and comp. short bow.
Tada!
Prince of Happiness
First Post
Depends on what period of Japanese history we're talking about, but I would just go with Fighter, forgo all the courtly skill based b.s. because for the longest time, they were warriors. Period.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
A fighter, maybe with a few levels of rogue if your DM isn't introducing a Iajitsu Focus feat. (Obviously not all samurai were masters of iajitsu.)
The Minamoto were known as "rough" samurai. When one of them killed a youth and found he had a flute, none of the rough Minamoto samurai were cultured enough to play it. So much for spouting poetry... only some samurai did that.
Speaking of which, samurai was both a profession and a social class. Many samurai (in terms of social class) would write poems, but they probably wouldn't have many fighter levels. (Lots of samurai were aristocrats with some weapons training.)
The first samurai wore bulky armor and rode horses, shooting bows. Later on in their history they started using spears (often on horseback, based on tactics and personal preference) and then finally swords (on foot) as battlefields got more crowded with larger numbers of non-samurai soldiers. Only a few could wield a sword from a horse, since that required them to use a katana with one hand (many didn't have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency required to use a katana with one hand).
The prevention of non-samurai from carrying swords didn't happen until nearly the end of the Sengoku period, by which point guns were becoming pretty common in Japan.
Dual-wielding was rare, but Musashi was not the first well-known dual-wielding samurai.
Besides iajitsu, the biggest problem facing samurai in the rules are medium armor. There's very little reason to use any medium armor in the rules. You can get heavy armor for the same speed, or if you're fond of skills get a chain shirt. I don't know of any samurai equivalent of a chain shirt - call it light lamellar? - but you'll still be weaker than a heavy fighter. (In-game, light fighters are usually pretty weak.)
If you want to play an aristrocrat, well you're out of luck. It can't be done without some non-core classes (or using an NPC class). I suggest Tactician (whatever it's called) or the DLCS noble. You'll feel silly when your tactical abilities work if your character has an Int of 8 but don't work if you're in an anti-magic field, but whatevah...
If you want to play a iajitsu master, I suggest Rog 1/Ftr 2 with Improved Initiative plus Quick Draw and, if you're daring, no armor. (I think this would closely replicate Jubei Yagyu, but you would need Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike to more closely copy him.) But if you want armor, go ahead and do it. Practice on the eta if you feel like it, since no one will complain.
If you want to play a battlefield samurai, don't bother with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Maybe take some mounted feats (if so, get a bow) or if you prefer fighting on foot, get a spear. Yup, a spear. Maybe a longspear, so you don't feel too weak. There was a battlefield prize awarded to the first kill with a spear, and another for the first kill with a sword.
Some samurai were notable foot-archers, but this was pretty rare.
Some less professional warriors were part-time farmers. They were called "one-fief, one suit of armor" samurai (there's a shorter Japanese word for that, of course), even though many were actually peasants rather than samurai. They would keep their spears sitting in the culverts as they farmed rice, with their sandals attached to the spears, so they would be ready to fight at a moment's notice.
The Minamoto were known as "rough" samurai. When one of them killed a youth and found he had a flute, none of the rough Minamoto samurai were cultured enough to play it. So much for spouting poetry... only some samurai did that.
Speaking of which, samurai was both a profession and a social class. Many samurai (in terms of social class) would write poems, but they probably wouldn't have many fighter levels. (Lots of samurai were aristocrats with some weapons training.)
The first samurai wore bulky armor and rode horses, shooting bows. Later on in their history they started using spears (often on horseback, based on tactics and personal preference) and then finally swords (on foot) as battlefields got more crowded with larger numbers of non-samurai soldiers. Only a few could wield a sword from a horse, since that required them to use a katana with one hand (many didn't have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency required to use a katana with one hand).
The prevention of non-samurai from carrying swords didn't happen until nearly the end of the Sengoku period, by which point guns were becoming pretty common in Japan.
Dual-wielding was rare, but Musashi was not the first well-known dual-wielding samurai.
Besides iajitsu, the biggest problem facing samurai in the rules are medium armor. There's very little reason to use any medium armor in the rules. You can get heavy armor for the same speed, or if you're fond of skills get a chain shirt. I don't know of any samurai equivalent of a chain shirt - call it light lamellar? - but you'll still be weaker than a heavy fighter. (In-game, light fighters are usually pretty weak.)
If you want to play an aristrocrat, well you're out of luck. It can't be done without some non-core classes (or using an NPC class). I suggest Tactician (whatever it's called) or the DLCS noble. You'll feel silly when your tactical abilities work if your character has an Int of 8 but don't work if you're in an anti-magic field, but whatevah...
If you want to play a iajitsu master, I suggest Rog 1/Ftr 2 with Improved Initiative plus Quick Draw and, if you're daring, no armor. (I think this would closely replicate Jubei Yagyu, but you would need Dodge and Improved Unarmed Strike to more closely copy him.) But if you want armor, go ahead and do it. Practice on the eta if you feel like it, since no one will complain.
If you want to play a battlefield samurai, don't bother with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Maybe take some mounted feats (if so, get a bow) or if you prefer fighting on foot, get a spear. Yup, a spear. Maybe a longspear, so you don't feel too weak. There was a battlefield prize awarded to the first kill with a spear, and another for the first kill with a sword.
Some samurai were notable foot-archers, but this was pretty rare.
Some less professional warriors were part-time farmers. They were called "one-fief, one suit of armor" samurai (there's a shorter Japanese word for that, of course), even though many were actually peasants rather than samurai. They would keep their spears sitting in the culverts as they farmed rice, with their sandals attached to the spears, so they would be ready to fight at a moment's notice.
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