Sandbox Setting?

[LostSoul]

In a sandbox game I'd expect that which city my PC goes to is a choice. In reality there's no choice at all to be made; the city my PC goes to is the same no matter what I do.

If I do find out this has been going on, I have to wonder if any of the choices I thought I was making were actually choices, or if they were decisions pre-made out of game by the DM.

 

[aboyd]

It is a choice. The cities are different, but their development is staggered. Human beings only have limited time.

 

[ExploderWizard]

In a sandbox game I'd expect that which city my PC goes to is a choice. In reality there's no choice at all to be made; the city my PC goes to is the same no matter what I do.

If I do find out this has been going on, I have to wonder if any of the choices I thought I was making were actually choices, or if they were decisions pre-made out of game by the DM.

I wouldn't have a problem with the city choice as long as cities A and C were still viable options to visit at another time and were not carbon copies of city B.

 

[darjr]

Sleight of hand by a DM is a tricky wicket. At worst it is just railroading by another means.

At it's best it is a really useful way to adjust so as to provide for a good game.

The difference between the two can be a VERY fine line.

You need to know your players, even so you need to make it seamless and not do it often.

Just my opinion. Though I've found the above advice to be really useful.

 

[Mallus]

If there's an environment to explore and NPC's to interact with as the player's see fit, then I'm willing to call it a sandbox setting. Basically if the campaign is something other than a series of linked, DM-chosen adventures.

Also, I feel the 'impartial referee' criterion is overrated (or at least overstated). I'm hardly impartial when I run a game --I'm biased towards the player's actions leading to outlandish adventures. In a way, I'm running a rigorous simulation... of a series of outlandish fantasy novels in which the PC's are the protagonists and the DM/author has no ending in mind and little control over the actual plots.

 

[LostSoul]

I wouldn't have a problem with the city choice as long as cities A and C were still viable options to visit at another time and were not carbon copies of city B.

Yeah, I can see that. I'm thinking something like, "Well, I want to get information about that portal we found at the bottom of that crypt. There's a big library in Hoboburg, so let's go there to research it." But Hoboburg hasn't been drawn up yet, only Griftersville. I imagine the DM could quickly ad-lib the Great Hobo's Library, and still use what he's got prepared.

How do you feel about switching the NPC from a powerful one into a lieutenant?

 

[Mallus]

I'm thinking something like, "Well, I want to get information about that portal we found at the bottom of that crypt. There's a big library in Hoboburg, so let's go there to research it." But Hoboburg hasn't been drawn up yet, only Griftersville. I imagine the DM could quickly ad-lib the Great Hobo's Library, and still use what he's got prepared.

This is just a smart, economical use of a DM's limited creative output. I think some people tend to fetishize 'railroading' into the denial of any choice, period, when it's better thought of as the denial of meaningful choices.

 

[Jack7]

I think some people tend to fetishize 'railroading' into the denial of any choice, period, when it's better thought of as the denial of meaningful choices.

I think that's a pretty good working definition. Of course meaningful could be a subjective term, but choice is often really a matter of what you make of it.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Yeah, I can see that. I'm thinking something like, "Well, I want to get information about that portal we found at the bottom of that crypt. There's a big library in Hoboburg, so let's go there to research it." But Hoboburg hasn't been drawn up yet, only Griftersville. I imagine the DM could quickly ad-lib the Great Hobo's Library, and still use what he's got prepared.

If the DM has established knowledge about a particular locale, and the players are aware of it, such as your library example then such features shouldn't be moved without a good reason. I dislike defining/prepping too much about a large population center. I prefer to keep descriptions vague until the PC's explore it themselves.

How do you feel about switching the NPC from a powerful one into a lieutenant?

In what context? When would this be done? An example if you please.

 

[LostSoul]

In what context? When would this be done? An example if you please.

Part of that same post:

Same with NPCs & villains. Did they kill your main villain in the first of many planned encounters? Are you miserable because now you have to kill that story arc and invent a new bad guy? Why? Unless you specifically said to the players, "This is the main enemy who will be a long-term recurring act," there is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Instead, just write off the first encounter as if it were the BBEG's right-hand man. Re-stat your BBEG to be tougher, and continue on.