Nebulous
Legend
Can you give an example of how and when you used the Powers and Attacks rolls? What was happening with the characters?
Sandboxing in the Nentir Vale (was: Emergent Features in KotS)
- Thread starter LostSoul
- Start date
Can you give an example of how and when you used the Powers and Attacks rolls? What was happening with the characters?
LostSoul
Adventurer
Sure! Here's a little sequence:
Here is me setting up the scene, trying to push the PCs to make a roll or suffer the effects of not doing anything:
Kalarel: Bring the warrior to the altar!
Vampire Spawn: <obey, dragging the Wexley Fighter up the stairs and slamming him down on the altar, unaware that Wexley's hands are free>
Wexley the Fighter: <waits for his moment to strike>
Underpriest: <chortles>
Kalarel: <to Wex> As you are the most stubborn, you will taste the kiss of Orcus' tooth! <Kalarel draws a long knife and prepares to jab it into the Fighter's chest.>
Here is the Warlord jumping into the action in response to my push:
Malchior the Warlord: <slips around to the back and casts Scorching Burst on the altar> "The flame of Orcus! He's blessed!"
DM: Uh... okay. Give me a Hard Stealth check - we'll see if they noticed you casting the spell.
Malchior: <rolls, misses it by 1>
DM: Flames burst around the altar.
Malchior: <rolls to hit to see if he kills the Vampire Spawn minions; kills one>
Kalarel: Betrayal! Bring him to me! We'll tear his heart out!
Malchior: <runs>
Here is the Fighter using a Power to make a roll in the Skill Challenge:
Wexley: <flails out at everyone using Sweeping Blow> <rolls Str vs. Moderate DC, +2 because the DM thought it fitting; succeeds>
Vampire Spawn: <dies>
Kalarel: Ooof! <kicked in the gut>
Underpriest: Arrgh! <punched in the nose, bleeding>
Here is the Warlock finishing things up with Diabolic Grasp:
Jace the Warlock: <conjures a hand of hellfire that grabs the Underpriest>
Underpriest: Nooo! <struggles>
Jace: <rolls Con vs. Moderate DC - Kalarel would have been Hard; succeeds>
Underpriest: <dragged to the well and thrown down> Kalarel, save meeeeee... <splash> <thud>
I've only played a couple 4e sessions, but it sounds like you're using a skill challenge for the characters trying to get away from Kalarel... is that right? Very cool!
In the bit I quoted, did the Warlord just ad lib making an item that could take the curse or is this one of his powers? If it's the former--awesome!
That One Guy
First Post
That's how to roll! Awesome stuff, just awesome.
LostSoul
Adventurer
We played again last Thursday. Things were pretty simple, but I did add to the module by using the "random encounter skill challenge" that I came up with last time.
First, they went into the skill challenge with Sir Keegan. This went well, I thought, but failures in the skill challenge didn't translate well. He just kept raising his sword, calling the PCs servants of Orcus, etc. Not much change in the situation for each roll. They won on the last roll, and he gave them his sword. It all worked out, but I felt it lacked some tension.
We talked about skill challenges after the game over some drinks, and I think we had some good ideas. More on that later.
After Sir Keegan they headed down to the second level. Cleaned up the remaining zombies at the top of the stairs in no time flat.
I had the Warchief and the remaining hobgoblins guarding the entrance, and this turned into one really close fight. The Warlock moved out in front to start off the combat, and, using Hellish Rebuke, blocked himself from damage. I wanted to do something cool to him using page 42 instead of an attack, but couldn't think of anything at the time. Oh well; the fight was cool, the Warlock and Wizard nearly went down and the Warlord went down a few times.
One of the hobgoblin grunts ran away to alert the ghoul from room 17, so I told the players that they didn't have a chance to get a short rest between fights. They hid out in a nearby room and the Wizard used Ghost Sound to trick the oncoming ghouls into searching the upper levels. One successful Arcana check vs. the Ghoul's Will defense and the PCs were in the clear.
They went to the trap room, and it was cool, but I think it would have been even more awesome if I had the ghoul show up and attack them while they were in the middle of it. I didn't want to overwhelm them, though, and I thought the ghoul and his zombie horde would be tough.
When they did encounter the ghoul and his zombies - the PCs in room 17, ghouls blocking their exit, the Cathedral down the stairs - it was pretty cool. The ghoul told them they were trapped, just like he was trapped when Sir Keegan went on his rampage. He would wait until they killed and ate each other, becoming a monster like him.
The Warlod revealed Sir Keegan's sword and the ghoul flew into a rage, attacking immediately (after a successful Diplomacy check). The PCs totally creamed them, and at this point I kicked myself for not having the ghoul attack in the trap room! It would have made both encounters awesome.
After the fight, I had a vampire spawn from the Cathedral room open the door and hiss at them - no time for a short rest. And that's where we ended.
The talk about the skill challenges was interesting. We were trying to decide how best to handle them. Here are some thoughts we had:
First, they went into the skill challenge with Sir Keegan. This went well, I thought, but failures in the skill challenge didn't translate well. He just kept raising his sword, calling the PCs servants of Orcus, etc. Not much change in the situation for each roll. They won on the last roll, and he gave them his sword. It all worked out, but I felt it lacked some tension.
We talked about skill challenges after the game over some drinks, and I think we had some good ideas. More on that later.
After Sir Keegan they headed down to the second level. Cleaned up the remaining zombies at the top of the stairs in no time flat.
I had the Warchief and the remaining hobgoblins guarding the entrance, and this turned into one really close fight. The Warlock moved out in front to start off the combat, and, using Hellish Rebuke, blocked himself from damage. I wanted to do something cool to him using page 42 instead of an attack, but couldn't think of anything at the time. Oh well; the fight was cool, the Warlock and Wizard nearly went down and the Warlord went down a few times.
One of the hobgoblin grunts ran away to alert the ghoul from room 17, so I told the players that they didn't have a chance to get a short rest between fights. They hid out in a nearby room and the Wizard used Ghost Sound to trick the oncoming ghouls into searching the upper levels. One successful Arcana check vs. the Ghoul's Will defense and the PCs were in the clear.
They went to the trap room, and it was cool, but I think it would have been even more awesome if I had the ghoul show up and attack them while they were in the middle of it. I didn't want to overwhelm them, though, and I thought the ghoul and his zombie horde would be tough.
When they did encounter the ghoul and his zombies - the PCs in room 17, ghouls blocking their exit, the Cathedral down the stairs - it was pretty cool. The ghoul told them they were trapped, just like he was trapped when Sir Keegan went on his rampage. He would wait until they killed and ate each other, becoming a monster like him.
The Warlod revealed Sir Keegan's sword and the ghoul flew into a rage, attacking immediately (after a successful Diplomacy check). The PCs totally creamed them, and at this point I kicked myself for not having the ghoul attack in the trap room! It would have made both encounters awesome.
After the fight, I had a vampire spawn from the Cathedral room open the door and hiss at them - no time for a short rest. And that's where we ended.
The talk about the skill challenges was interesting. We were trying to decide how best to handle them. Here are some thoughts we had:
- Skill challenges should be used when the group wants to go into detail on something and wants to have the end point be totally unknown - as opposed to regular skill checks, when there's more of a binary pass-or-fail, simple and quick mechanic.
- We won't set up a goal for the skill challenge - we won't know what success or failure means until we get there.
- The DM will push hard against the PCs, "forcing" an action/roll of some kind.
- The DM or the players can end the skill challenge at any point if they are satisfied with what's going on in the fictional situation. If the PCs are okay with whatever situation the DM is pushing on them, we can end the challenge (because there is no longer a conflict).
- Each roll will be very important and will resolve the stated action, which will change the situation.
- The overall success and failure means that we know when to stop rolling, sticking with those results. This was the tricky thing. We decided that I, the DM, would have the authority to really be a bastard, doing things like taking away all their healing surges, throwing them in prison without their equipment, that sort of thing. Success would mean no more rolling for whatever just happened. It's hard to explain but you know it when you see it.
pukunui
Legend
Man ... I am so jealous! I wish my players would roleplay like that!
Lostsoul - would you be willing to expand on your experience with the trap room? You said it was fun but I'm actually a bit worried about it.
Like I'm not entirely sure how the arcane wall with the whirlpool trap is supposed to work. For starters, I don't really know where the wall is supposed to be ...
This guy highlights the issues quite well: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1037342
I'd love to know how you interpreted it and how it all worked out for your group.
Lostsoul - would you be willing to expand on your experience with the trap room? You said it was fun but I'm actually a bit worried about it.
Like I'm not entirely sure how the arcane wall with the whirlpool trap is supposed to work. For starters, I don't really know where the wall is supposed to be ...
This guy highlights the issues quite well: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1037342
I'd love to know how you interpreted it and how it all worked out for your group.
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LostSoul
Adventurer
The trap room was cool because the players had to figure out what they did using player skill. The maneuvered around the room to disable what they could, avoided the traps, and used powers to get themselves out of bad spots (shifting mostly - thanks Warlord!).
I had the arcane cage show up between the first passage and another one behind the farthest two cherubs. I let them attack through the cage, though it might have been better to have them make an Arcana check to bypass them.
I wouldn't worry too much about the cage. Just make sure that the PCs can use their powers or skills to work against it and it'll work out fine, I think.
If I was running it again, I'd have another group of monsters show up. From behind the PCs, if at all possible. There's a lot of interesting terrain options that you can use - stuff that could make the zombie grab a good option (an immobilized PC in the range of the titan's sword would be killer). Other monsters that can force movement would work well here too.
I had the arcane cage show up between the first passage and another one behind the farthest two cherubs. I let them attack through the cage, though it might have been better to have them make an Arcana check to bypass them.
I wouldn't worry too much about the cage. Just make sure that the PCs can use their powers or skills to work against it and it'll work out fine, I think.
If I was running it again, I'd have another group of monsters show up. From behind the PCs, if at all possible. There's a lot of interesting terrain options that you can use - stuff that could make the zombie grab a good option (an immobilized PC in the range of the titan's sword would be killer). Other monsters that can force movement would work well here too.
pukunui
Legend
The main problem I have with it is simply where to put it. It sounds like it's supposed to pass through the cherubs, so that they're partly inside the cage and partly outside of it ... although your idea of allowing an Arcana check to bypass the cage is a good potential solution.
My players are such that they like to know exactly where things are. They don't like vagueness, so I know I'll need to tell them exactly where this cage is.
Having monsters involved would be better ... after all, 4e traps are designed to be used in conjunction with monsters. This room is a bit odd since it's just traps ... and early model traps at that. None of them have any ability to act out of initiative order, so without any monsters in the room, it should be relatively easy for clever players to bypass the traps all together (except the cage) by delaying/readying/etc.
LostSoul
Adventurer
Final Session!
This time we began with combat and it occupied our time for most of the night. The PCs went into the Cathedral of Shadow. Rogue and Warlock sneak around the south flank, but are spotted by the Dark Creeper. Combat begins.
Smash smash boom boom. The Wizard nearly died (failed 2 death saves). Lesson (hopefully) learned: let the Fighter open the door! In the end they won, gaining another Action Point, though the Wizard was out of healing and the Rogue and Warlock were running low as well.
But the minions from Winterhaven who came here when the Rogue asked are still alive.
Down below they hear Kalarel yelling - "That blood was all I needed! The beast will tear through the portal and all will embrace Orcus!"
So they head down. The Rogue sneaks along the chains (getting a -2 because it's hard to hide on slick chains) and scouts out the room. Then they head in. They swung on the chains using Athletics or Acrobatics as Jump checks, picking the square they landed in.
The Warlock has his Armour of Agathas... up so the Wight immobilizes him. The Rogue comes in next and the Skeletons and Kalarel team up on him, knocking him down. The Wizard heads to the circle and tries to break the ritual - but he fails, drawing a bolt of energy from the statue of Orcus. (I wasn't using the skill challenge from the Wizards site, just going with it.)
Kalarel starts moving to the portal and the magic circle, holding on to his Action Point because things are going really well for him right now. The Fighter's kept pinned by the Wight, though the Fighter totally messed up the Skeleton the Wight brought down, the Skeleton who was going to pin the PCs down so Kalarel could get to the circle.
Kalarel and the remaining skeleton smash the crap out of the Warlord, bringing him down - but only after he got his Lead the Attack off for a +4 to their attacks! Crap. The Rogue gets knocked out too. But they both get up and finally the Fighter breaks the Immobilization and pins Kalarel down.
The Wight tries to force the Warlock and Rogue into the Icy zone the Wizard set up, but totally fails. That was the breaking point; Kalarel was pinned away from the portal (which didn't do much) and gets creamed. But he was close enough to get sucked into the portal, which was nice.
Mop up time. No prob.
Then we had a Skill Challenge to close the portal for good. It was all the sacrifices and the blood that was powering the rift. The PCs said prayers to the Raven Queen, performed funeral rites, and broke Orcus' hold on the dead, ushering them to the Raven Queen. This firmed up the rift, turning it from a thin veil into an obsidian wall.
Back to Winterhaven. There's much rejoicing, and some roleplay. The Wizard gets up on stage and starts talking about the evil that's infecting the land.
Rond is watching nearby, taking it all in, and the Rogue approaches him. "We can give you a promotion if you help us out," he says. Rond isn't the type of guy to go for bribes, but he says: "I just want peace, order, and good government for Winterhaven." He gives the Rogue a sash marking him as a deputy.
Then the Wizard really gets into it. "We must root out the cause, what allowed the evil to infect the land." Padraig gets up to speak, and the Wizard points him out. "He was the one who allowed Orcus to get his hands on Winterhaven!"
Padraig is shocked. The crowd agrees. "Burn him! Get Padraig!" Pitchforks and torches appear. The Warlord tries to calm down the crowd with an appeal to law, order, and justice as the mob brings Padraig up on stage. Rond comes to the Warlord's aid.
The old slave rescued from the Keep comes on stage with a knife. "I was sold into slavery because of him! I'm going to kill him for it!" The Wizard grabs his arm, holding him back, and the old man drops his knife and weeps. Aww.
So they throw Padraig in jail. A council is formed - Rond, the Warlord Malchior, Salvana Wrafton, Eilian the Old, and Valthrun the Prescient. They agree to a trial by a jury of peers and start figuring out who's going to run this place. The Wizard plans to take care of the treasury. The Rogue is made a deputy for good, and the Rogue's minion buddies. (Who have gained a level.) The Fighter is the "Brute Squad".
The Warlock, meanwhile, is talking to a priest about his Infernal Pact, how he came to make it, and how he's going to track down the devil who made it with him.
That was that. Next time: I'm going to lead off with Douven Staul and the mercenary company the PCs are working for coming into Winterhaven to deal with Kalarel - a little late. They're going to be led by a Knight, and his first words will be:
"What the hell is Lord Padraig doing in prison?"
So next time we'll deal with that. We also talked about where we want the game to go. We're going to have some more character-driven stuff, stuff that will be resolved with lots and lots of combat. We are going to play through Thunderspire Labryinth, though I'll modify it based on the goals of the PCs.
This time we began with combat and it occupied our time for most of the night. The PCs went into the Cathedral of Shadow. Rogue and Warlock sneak around the south flank, but are spotted by the Dark Creeper. Combat begins.
Smash smash boom boom. The Wizard nearly died (failed 2 death saves). Lesson (hopefully) learned: let the Fighter open the door! In the end they won, gaining another Action Point, though the Wizard was out of healing and the Rogue and Warlock were running low as well.
But the minions from Winterhaven who came here when the Rogue asked are still alive.
Down below they hear Kalarel yelling - "That blood was all I needed! The beast will tear through the portal and all will embrace Orcus!"
So they head down. The Rogue sneaks along the chains (getting a -2 because it's hard to hide on slick chains) and scouts out the room. Then they head in. They swung on the chains using Athletics or Acrobatics as Jump checks, picking the square they landed in.
The Warlock has his Armour of Agathas... up so the Wight immobilizes him. The Rogue comes in next and the Skeletons and Kalarel team up on him, knocking him down. The Wizard heads to the circle and tries to break the ritual - but he fails, drawing a bolt of energy from the statue of Orcus. (I wasn't using the skill challenge from the Wizards site, just going with it.)
Kalarel starts moving to the portal and the magic circle, holding on to his Action Point because things are going really well for him right now. The Fighter's kept pinned by the Wight, though the Fighter totally messed up the Skeleton the Wight brought down, the Skeleton who was going to pin the PCs down so Kalarel could get to the circle.
Kalarel and the remaining skeleton smash the crap out of the Warlord, bringing him down - but only after he got his Lead the Attack off for a +4 to their attacks! Crap. The Rogue gets knocked out too. But they both get up and finally the Fighter breaks the Immobilization and pins Kalarel down.
The Wight tries to force the Warlock and Rogue into the Icy zone the Wizard set up, but totally fails. That was the breaking point; Kalarel was pinned away from the portal (which didn't do much) and gets creamed. But he was close enough to get sucked into the portal, which was nice.
Mop up time. No prob.
Then we had a Skill Challenge to close the portal for good. It was all the sacrifices and the blood that was powering the rift. The PCs said prayers to the Raven Queen, performed funeral rites, and broke Orcus' hold on the dead, ushering them to the Raven Queen. This firmed up the rift, turning it from a thin veil into an obsidian wall.
Back to Winterhaven. There's much rejoicing, and some roleplay. The Wizard gets up on stage and starts talking about the evil that's infecting the land.
Rond is watching nearby, taking it all in, and the Rogue approaches him. "We can give you a promotion if you help us out," he says. Rond isn't the type of guy to go for bribes, but he says: "I just want peace, order, and good government for Winterhaven." He gives the Rogue a sash marking him as a deputy.
Then the Wizard really gets into it. "We must root out the cause, what allowed the evil to infect the land." Padraig gets up to speak, and the Wizard points him out. "He was the one who allowed Orcus to get his hands on Winterhaven!"
Padraig is shocked. The crowd agrees. "Burn him! Get Padraig!" Pitchforks and torches appear. The Warlord tries to calm down the crowd with an appeal to law, order, and justice as the mob brings Padraig up on stage. Rond comes to the Warlord's aid.
The old slave rescued from the Keep comes on stage with a knife. "I was sold into slavery because of him! I'm going to kill him for it!" The Wizard grabs his arm, holding him back, and the old man drops his knife and weeps. Aww.
So they throw Padraig in jail. A council is formed - Rond, the Warlord Malchior, Salvana Wrafton, Eilian the Old, and Valthrun the Prescient. They agree to a trial by a jury of peers and start figuring out who's going to run this place. The Wizard plans to take care of the treasury. The Rogue is made a deputy for good, and the Rogue's minion buddies. (Who have gained a level.) The Fighter is the "Brute Squad".
The Warlock, meanwhile, is talking to a priest about his Infernal Pact, how he came to make it, and how he's going to track down the devil who made it with him.
That was that. Next time: I'm going to lead off with Douven Staul and the mercenary company the PCs are working for coming into Winterhaven to deal with Kalarel - a little late. They're going to be led by a Knight, and his first words will be:
"What the hell is Lord Padraig doing in prison?"
So next time we'll deal with that. We also talked about where we want the game to go. We're going to have some more character-driven stuff, stuff that will be resolved with lots and lots of combat. We are going to play through Thunderspire Labryinth, though I'll modify it based on the goals of the PCs.
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