[Savage Species]Half-ogre overpowered??

[Shard O'Glase]

But spring attack allows the combatant to get in close and dirty as well, so...

Still doesn't prevent a H-Ogre armed with a Huge Spiked Chain from 5-ft-stepping and full attacking... 15 ft reach... 2d6 damage +Str, hmm nice.

*makes mental note* -Got to recruit one of those NPC's.

Yes spring attack does, but unless you are wearing the boots of cheat your still within range of the h-ogre negating one of the big bennies of spring attack. And on a 1 swing a round basis the h-ogre will win, the human types hope will be for more attacks thanks to a lucky level increase.

Also if the h-ogre went with a reach weapon hugified, this would take out tumble as a way to get within reach in one round. With its 20' limit and a 10' reach for the 1/2 ogre and a 15'? reach for a huge glaive/spiked chain whatever after a tumble they will still be 5' away.

 

[Forrester]

Also if the h-ogre went with a reach weapon hugified, this would take out tumble as a way to get within reach in one round. With its 20' limit and a 10' reach for the 1/2 ogre and a 15'? reach for a huge glaive/spiked chain whatever after a tumble they will still be 5' away.

I am, of course, in total agreement with you re the power of the ogre's reach, but I hope you're not arguing that he has effectively 25' reach if he uses a huge glaive.

He's normally got 10' reach. With a Huge Spiked Chain/Glaive, his reach would either be 15' or 20' (you could make arguments for either, though I think 15' makes the most sense). A rogue standing 25' away could Tumble to him in any case.

 

[Darklone]

I don't consider Spring Attack as useful tactic to fight against such a thing... You will have to wear no heavy armour, e.g. most of our fighter examples are obsolete.

Huge longspear would be able to attack at 15ft and 20ft.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I am, of course, in total agreement with you re the power of the ogre's reach, but I hope you're not arguing that he has effectively 25' reach if he uses a huge glaive.

He's normally got 10' reach. With a Huge Spiked Chain/Glaive, his reach would either be 15' or 20' (you could make arguments for either, though I think 15' makes the most sense). A rogue standing 25' away could Tumble to him in any case.

Your right I did my math wrong. Though I'd say it was definetly 20' not 15'. I can't find any rules for up sizeing reach weapons right now, but I'd say a reach weapon of size huge has a reach of 15' by itself add that to the 10' reach and you got a 20' reach. So no it wont nullify tumble.

Still as a genral rule much of the battlefield will be a threatened area for him, AoO will abound so I'd personally make sure my dex was good enough to capitalize off this with combat relfexes.

 

[Spatula]

Your right I did my math wrong. Though I'd say it was definetly 20' not 15'. I can't find any rules for up sizeing reach weapons right now, but I'd say a reach weapon of size huge has a reach of 15' by itself add that to the 10' reach and you got a 20' reach.

Savage Species pg 42. A huge glaive would have a reach of 15, but you don't add that to the wielder's. The wielder's size/reach is already taken into account by whether or not the weapon can be used (e.g. you have to be large or bigger in order to use a huge weapon).

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Savage Species pg 42. A huge glaive would have a reach of 15, but you don't add that to the wielder's. The wielder's size/reach is already taken into account by whether or not the weapon can be used (e.g. you have to be large or bigger in order to use a huge weapon).

Wow that's just dumb IMO. A 10' reach weapon on an ogre should have a 15' reach, you upsize it the reach should increase as well.

 

[Hardhead]

Wow that's just dumb IMO. A 10' reach weapon on an ogre should have a 15' reach, you upsize it the reach should increase as well.

A small sized creature (like halflings) using a longsword has a reach of 5'. Should a medium sized creature like a human have a reach of 10' when using a longsword? Weapon reach has always been tied to the weapon, not the weilder.

 

[Trine]

Instead of comparing two fighters in a fight against each other, why not try comparing them by their usefulness in a party? ECL shouldn't be considered a measure of one-on-one power. It should be a measure of how much a member will contribute to a party, which is the standard basis for a game and much of the mechanics within.

 

[Victim]

Okay.

Most of a fighter's contribution to the group comes in damage taking and damage dealing. The half ogre at LA+2 hits harder and about as often as comparable human and half orc fighters. While he has fewer HP, he has better AC. Also, he'll take less damage attacking monsters with reach because he doesn't need to move through it. Because's he's large, the half ogre will likely draw more fire and keep more vulnerable teammates from being attacked. As a Giant creature, he's immmune to common anti-fighter spells like Hold person. His reach, especially if combined with special feats and weapons, allows him to command the battlefield. The half ogre's strength and greater damage allow him to carry more stuff, and break through obstacles with greater ease.

On the other hand, having a half ogre around might require some additional explanation at times. Access to prestige classes will be delayed. The half ogre contributes very little to the group skill-wise. However, most fighters have that problem as well.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

A small sized creature (like halflings) using a longsword has a reach of 5'. Should a medium sized creature like a human have a reach of 10' when using a longsword? Weapon reach has always been tied to the weapon, not the weilder.

No, one of the factors of reach is a wepaon the other is size. Both the 1/2ling and the human have rach of 5' so they both gain nothing from using a sword reach wise. Now if it was a tiny creature it has a reach 0 so there would be a difference between it and the halflings reach with a longsword. If it wasn't tied to the wielder the h-ogre would not have reach 10 when wielding a sword.