[Savage Species]Half-ogre overpowered??

[Shard O'Glase]

Because I modified the scenario by taking into account that the ogre can't afford the equipment given (lowered his AC) and the fighter has 4 more feats than shown (upped his AC and hp) using those revisions the fighter lasts one more round than the ogre, and therefore consistently wins the fight.

That's the ogre's best category, and he's losing at ECL +2. Therefore it's too high.

PS

You also used those 4 feats in a way to specifically counter the 1/2 ogre and survive 1 extra round. The orginal feats were the core 4 feats that you'll see on virtually every mellee fighter and effect the outcome of fights the most.

IOW 2 likely PCs facing off or 1 likely PC vs 1 PC designed to defeat the other. Which shows the balance of the situation better.

 

[Forrester]

Because I modified the scenario by taking into account that the ogre can't afford the equipment given (lowered his AC) and the fighter has 4 more feats than shown (upped his AC and hp) using those revisions the fighter lasts one more round than the ogre, and therefore consistently wins the fight.

That's the ogre's best category, and he's losing at ECL +2. Therefore it's too high.

PS

Um, in my scenario (where they kill each other in 5 rounds), they both have $$ left to spend. The half-ogre can afford the equipment easily.

Not to mention the fact that I started the battle with them taking full-round attacks (Doofus would have to close and thus possibly suffer an AoO, or Thumpy would get the first attack with a charge, and do who knows what with it).

Hell, if Thumpy gets a crit and rolls a little lucky on the damage, he kills Doofus with one swing. The latter . . . ain't the case.

I also gave Doofus the benefit of the doubt and gave him the iterative attack, while denying it to Thumpy. Three out of five levels, they'll have the same iterative attack. Guess who is winning those battles, Doofus's Toughness feats notwithstanding?

(If Thumpy's smart, he'll try to Sunder Doofus's weapon with his AoO . . . 50% chance he ends the battle in a BIG ole hurry.)

I really think you're overlooking the advantages of being large size. The 10' reach is just amazing in so many combats -- most opponents aren't going to have Mobility or Tumbling. And the amazing damage output means that Thumpy is going to be cleaving through bugbears and maybe even ogres. Thror is going to have to hit them a couple times.

(And I can speak for many players when I say that monsters' Improved Grab is a huge pain in the ass. Thumpy, however, will not be concerned.)

ECL +2 may be a tad too high. Maybe the half-ogre would need a 40' speed to compensate, or nuke the -2 hit to Dex. But making him ECL +1 is just nuts.

 

[Storminator]

Um, in my scenario (where they kill each other in 5 rounds), they both have $$ left to spend. The half-ogre can afford the equipment easily.

Yup. Mixed up the level 3 guys with the level 6 guys. Sorry.

PS

P.S. Do they really have height/weight charts for the different races?

 

[Forrester]

P.S. Do they really have height/weight charts for the different races?

No, but the MM says that ogres weight between 300 and 350lbs, so I figure that half-ogres shouldn't weigh any more than that, even when they're buff.

 

[Storminator]

You also used those 4 feats in a way to specifically counter the 1/2 ogre and survive 1 extra round. The orginal feats were the core 4 feats that you'll see on virtually every mellee fighter and effect the outcome of fights the most.

IOW 2 likely PCs facing off or 1 likely PC vs 1 PC designed to defeat the other. Which shows the balance of the situation better.

No, I chose feats specifically for ease (like it said in the post). If I wanted to design an ogre killer he'd be an archer.

Similarly, I'd give any large fighter Large and In Charge and a huge spear.

PS

 

[Victim]

Magical Armor resizes to fit the wearer. So the Half-Ogre can have magical Full Plate as easily as the human.

A smart level 9 wizard could teleport both of them. By using the reduce spell to cut someone's weight to one tenth the usual value, even incredibly heavy creatures can be easily teleported.

+2 seems more accurate than +1 LA. The large size will be amazingly helpful against the many monsters with their own natural reach, improved grab, or swallow whole.

 

[Hardhead]

No, I chose feats specifically for ease (like it said in the post). If I wanted to design an ogre killer he'd be an archer.

Similarly, I'd give any large fighter Large and In Charge and a huge spear.

An Archer would suck against the half-Ogre. You're not taking into account the reach. Normally, an archer can take a 5' step bakc and fire his arrows off to avoid AoO. A H/Og would still threaten the archer after th 5' step due to his 10' reach.

 

[melkoriii]

What about taking the H/Og in a different direction?

Say give the H/Og Fighter lvl 4 with Expertise, Improved Trip.

The H/Og gets +4 to this Trip and gets a free attack on a prone foe.

If he takes Knock-Down he will really rule.

 

[Storminator]

LOL. I got home and looked over the book, and a bat person is also an ECL 1! Hard to put the half ogre and the bat in the same category!

PS

 

[Storminator]

An Archer would suck against the half-Ogre. You're not taking into account the reach. Normally, an archer can take a 5' step bakc and fire his arrows off to avoid AoO. A H/Og would still threaten the archer after th 5' step due to his 10' reach.

Not if the ogre has heavy armor. Run twice, shoot once, run twice shoot once, etc.

Reach is not like nuclear weapons. It's nice. It's not the end of the world.

PS