[Savage Species]Half-ogre overpowered??

[Storminator]

So, in other words, it shows that H/Ogs would be balanced if their ECL was one higher!

If you accept this comparison, and that it indicates balance. I would say the human fighter in these comparisons is a clear winner, and that ECL +2 is too much.

PS

 

[Storminator]

Yeah but that size has advantages as well.

The half ogre could carry the whole party up a rope probably.

"I'm just going to have to get myself a new giant."

He can reach higher ledges, he's more difficult to grapple, bull rush, disarm etc. If he gets a freindly polymorph one size category higher is huge not large and on and on, for every you can' fit in the cannoe there is a hah I'm large here's a situation where it helps.

Correct. In other words, it's even, not an advantage. At least in an ongoing campaign setting its equal. In "make a PC for a smackdown" it's a clear advantage.

PS

 

[Forrester]

The four feats came from: level 6 human fighter ==8 feats, you had 4 listed. The 1/2 ogre would have one more as well.

The 2k difference lessens true, but there are other logistics the 1/2 ogre will always have to overcome. He'll never ride a horse, he won't fit in a canoe, he'll never be teleported by the wizard, etc. It'd take a 32nd level wizard to teleport him! Yow. I have a near-epic level PARTY that doesn't weigh as much as him...

PS

Lay off the drugs, man . Half-ogres don't weight 1600lbs. They weight around 300lbs without equipment, max. Well within Teleport-Me-Please range.

(Ogres weigh 300-350lbs on average. Buffed-out half-ogres, with equipment, might weigh 400lbs I suppose. Not a big deal.)

He can probably find a really big horse to drag his ass around. I still don't see how anyone could argue he's Level +1. A, say, Half-Ogre/Fighter6 would completely and totally stomp the hell out of a Fighter7. In a second.

 

[Storminator]

Didn't actually look at height/weight tables (at work, no book) just based it off Large=twice as tall --> eight times the weight.

PS

 

[Hardhead]

If you accept this comparison, and that it indicates balance. I would say the human fighter in these comparisons is a clear winner, and that ECL +2 is too much.

Clear winner? How so? They kill each other in the same round.

If the balance is that close at ECL +2, then I think it's a clear indicator that ECL +1 is far too weak.

Oh, and the comparison is for the very level that the human gets an iterative attack, so it's also compared at the exact point the human would have the biggest advantage.

 

[Storminator]

Clear winner? How so? They kill each other in the same round.

If the balance is that close at ECL +2, then I think it's a clear indicator that ECL +1 is far too weak.

Because I modified the scenario by taking into account that the ogre can't afford the equipment given (lowered his AC) and the fighter has 4 more feats than shown (upped his AC and hp) using those revisions the fighter lasts one more round than the ogre, and therefore consistently wins the fight.

That's the ogre's best category, and he's losing at ECL +2. Therefore it's too high.

PS

 

[Sejs]

I'm still curious how it would balance out, for the Human Fighter 6, Vs the Half-Ogre Fighter 4 or 5 if you gave the human those 4 missing feats. Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and .. well he didn't have the Int 13+ in the example to meet the reqs for Expertise, so say Improved Initiative or Combat Reflexes. Those are both fightery type feats.

 

[Hardhead]

Because I modified the scenario by taking into account that the ogre can't afford the equipment given (lowered his AC) and the fighter has 4 more feats than shown (upped his AC and hp) using those revisions the fighter lasts one more round than the ogre, and therefore consistently wins the fight.

That's the ogre's best category, and he's losing at ECL +2. Therefore it's too high.

Why wouldn't the H/Og be able to afford the equipment? You determine money they should have on table 145 by adding character level + ECL. If you're shorting the Ogre on equipment, then, that'll affect things, but it won't be a valid comparison.

 

[Storminator]

Why wouldn't the H/Og be able to afford the equipment? You determine money they should have on table 145 by adding character level + ECL. If you're shorting the Ogre on equipment, then, that'll affect things, but it won't be a valid comparison.

The half ogre had full plate. Armor costs double for large creatures, so that would be 3000, not 1500. Gold for 3rd level PCs is 2700, so the fighter gets plate mail and the ogre doesn't. And it's the fair way to do it because it takes into account the penalty for large size.

PS

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Correct. In other words, it's even, not an advantage. At least in an ongoing campaign setting its equal. In "make a PC for a smackdown" it's a clear advantage.

PS

No the extra little side benefits even out. The core benefits like reach vs -1 to ac and -1 to hit don't even come clsoe to balancing, reach just smacks those minor penalties around.