Save or die spells/effects

[Pyrex]

Hmmm... save-or-die sets to -1 hp? Little idea: It should be -(spell level) hp.

It finds wonderful: Slay Living reduces to -5, Finger of Death to -7, Implosion/Wail of the Banshee to -9 - meaning the more powerful the spell, the less time you have to save your comrades.

In essence I like the idea; but the problem is that it just makes spells/effects that grant Fast Healing (*glares at the Dragon Shaman*) that much more powerful.

I'd probably also add a note that said effect renders them Unconscious for SpellLevel minutes or until they recieve a healing spell (Cure spells, Heal, Regenerate, whatever) of SpellLevel or higher.

If you fail a save-or-die it should at least knock you out of combat...

 

[mmadsen]

You mean like level drain?

When I said, "I'd like to see a new mechanic where a failed save has some negative effect, then you roll another save to see if you're really hosed," I was thinking more along the lines of confirming a critical hit -- but simpler, and inverted, with the victim rolling, since it's a save.

For instance, a character might roll a Will Save against color spray. Sucess means no ill effects, but failure means the character is stunned -- and rolls another Will Save. Success means no further ill effects, just being stunned, but failure ups the consequences to include blindness -- and another roll. Success on that save means just being stunned and blinded. Failure means unconsciousness too.

Sleep's effects could escalate from being dazed for one round, to being stunned for one round, to actually being put to sleep, unconscious.

In many cases, the problem with save-or-die spells is that they're so binary, and that mechanically they're decided by a single roll. Escalating saves sidestep those issues.

 

[WhatGravitas]

In essence I like the idea; but the problem is that it just makes spells/effects that grant Fast Healing (*glares at the Dragon Shaman*) that much more powerful.

I'd probably also add a note that said effect renders them Unconscious for SpellLevel minutes or until they recieve a healing spell (Cure spells, Heal, Regenerate, whatever) of SpellLevel or higher.

If you fail a save-or-die it should at least knock you out of combat...

About fast healing: Just houserule that Fast Healing doesn't kick in, until the character is healed by magic or rest (since we're already in houseruling territory, it won't hurt).

The unconsciousness part: If you're in the negative hit points, you're already dying... or not *glares at some feats*, but yeah, it should also knock them unconscious, but no need for spells, just the regular Heal check. Why? Because even if they're conscious again, they'll first need to heal themselves... and then use exactly the same spell and it keeps the houserule neat and simple.

Perhaps you could add the rule that the Heal check to stabilize is DC 20 instead of DC 15, due to the ravages of the death magic, or DC 15 (the normal DC) + spell level.

Escalating saves sidestep those issues.

You mean like Phantasmal Killer? Sounds nice, but I don't have any particular ideas 'bout it... perhaps Something like this (for finger of death):
1st save: Success: 3d6 damage; Fail: Next save
2nd save: Success: 3d6 Con damage; Fail: Next save
3rd save: Success: Death; Fail: Complete obliteration
Or something entirely different... BTW, why the obsession with 3d6 base damage for these kill spells (Phantasmal Killer, Slay Living, Finger of Death)?

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

The simplest solution to save or die is the console RPG solution: characters reduced to 0 hit points are out of the fight (unless revived with a spell/item/Heal check), but that doesn't necessarily mean they're dead. Pretty much the same effect as Shilsen's fate cards but without the cards.

Dodges all those tricky 'at -5 hp but still fighting' and 'fast healing' tricks, too.

 

[WhatGravitas]

The simplest solution to save or die is the console RPG solution: characters reduced to 0 hit points are out of the fight (unless revived with a spell/item/Heal check), but that doesn't necessarily mean they're dead. Pretty much the same effect as Shilsen's fate cards but without the cards.

Dodges all those tricky 'at -5 hp but still fighting' and 'fast healing' tricks, too.

But... it feels a bit video-gamey... and I like the idea of people rushing to their almost-fallen buddies, trying to rescue them from almost certain death. Just my 2 cp, so YMMV.

 

[Psion]

Or something entirely different... BTW, why the obsession with 3d6 base damage for these kill spells (Phantasmal Killer, Slay Living, Finger of Death)?

Getting you in practice for rolling a new character.

 

[Mercule]

The simplest solution to save or die is the console RPG solution: characters reduced to 0 hit points are out of the fight (unless revived with a spell/item/Heal check), but that doesn't necessarily mean they're dead. Pretty much the same effect as Shilsen's fate cards but without the cards.

Dodges all those tricky 'at -5 hp but still fighting' and 'fast healing' tricks, too.

:vomit:

Too video-gamey. By that, I mean it gets away from on of the "mood" reasons why I like tabletop gaming.

 

[Hjorimir]

I use Save or Dying.

When failing a Save vs. what would normally be death, instead the character falls. Unless somebody has a status running, you have no idea if the character is dead or alive. The failed save puts the character at a random point between -1 and -10 (d10). Once the character receives aid in the form of magical healing or being treated with the heal skill, I will then roll a d10 to see if they are even alive still.

The nice thing about this is that when a character falls there is a sense of urgency to come to the rescue quickly...time is ticking. There is an element of unknown, which increases the drama for everybody involved. It also removes any possible metagaming where a character may delay a round or two or three if they know somebody has eight rounds to go.

I don't allow stabilization checks on what would normally have been an instant kill by the RAW. Obviously, rolling a natural 10 means the effect killed the character instantly, but at least there was a 90% that they could have been saved.

 

[Nightfall]

Getting you in practice for rolling a new character.

Yep much like most of my games.

 

[Darklone]

But... it feels a bit video-gamey... and I like the idea of people rushing to their almost-fallen buddies, trying to rescue them from almost certain death. Just my 2 cp, so YMMV.

That's ok to me, but if someone gets up and is beaten down again several times per battle, it's getting boring.