Save Vs Silence
- Thread starter Twowolves
- Start date
wedgeski
Adventurer
I think we'll have to differ on exactly how clear the silence spell description is. I can easily see an interpretation of 'unwilling creature' being extended to someone strolling into the area of effect as well as someone being targeted. Since I'm obviously in the minority, all that's left for me to do is decide whether or not to change it in my game.Artoomis said:
Artoomis
First Post
wedgeski said:
Well, here's the actual language:
...The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.
I see your point. It could be viewed your way, though that's definately the minority position. It does not actually state an unwilling TARGET.
Infiniti2000
First Post
Sure it does. Creature clearly refers to the previous sentence wherein "The spell can be centered on a creature..." The spell description is not suddenly losing context and referring to any creature. The unwilling creature therefore must be the target.Artoomis said:
Infiniti2000
First Post
No, not for this spell which has "yes; see text" and not just "yes". It's not watered down at all.Artoomis said:
Artoomis
First Post
Infiniti2000 said:
I think maybe you missing my point. this spell COULD be read three ways:
1. Anyone who resists gets a saving throw and spell resistance applies.
Reading this sentence as a stand-alone:... An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. I think this is incorrect, but it is one way to read this.
2. Only those directly targeted get saving throw and SR.
The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any.
Reading these two sentences together with the second modifying the first. This appaers to be the most correct way to read the language, but it's not the way it's played, I think.
3. Only those targeted get a saving throw and SR applies to all (but that's really NOT the way it reads as written - we conclude this because of other SR rules vs, AoO spells)
The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any.
This one is really tough to get out of the actual language - it requires having the second sentence modify the frst but then also split the second sentence artificially into two parts. It's really a stretch, even though this is way I (and most people) play it.
The way the two sentences are structured, either the saving throws and SR apply to the same group of people - either the one targeted or anyone in the AoO.
If everyone got SR why would you need SR Yes; see text or no (object)? Why not just Yes or no (object).
I am beginning to think that SR does not apply unless you are targetted - which is certainly not my going-in position.
Artoomis said:
I am beginning to agree with you. It certainly clears up the confusion about applying SR when in the AoE and then trying to figure out exactly how the spell effects that resistant creature - since it is only the portion of the AoE that would not be affecting the creature whom resisted it.
