D&D 5E Scaling the number of off-hand attacks?

[FormerlyHemlock]

Emdw, remember that a feat does NOT have to be better than +2 Dex.

Why?

Because when you have Dexterity 20, taking that ASI is truly "worthless" while taking the Dual Wielder feat is not.

I agree, but I think measuring against ASI is a reasonable baseline for measuring damage-oriented feats. After all, you typically have non-offensive needs as well, such as Lucky, Alert or Resilient. Anything worse than an ASI, in my opinion, is unlikely to get chosen over the opportunity cost. Even a offense-oriented dual wielder should find Mounted Combatant or Sentinel more attractive than Savage Attacks or Dual Wielder.

I did like the idea from earlier in this thread about making Dual Wielder allow dual attacks on a -5; my only concern in that case, aside from the increased complexity that always results from introducing a house rule, is that it would make Dual Wielder almost as good as GWM and Polearm Master combined, which seems like a rather large swing from PHB rules, especially on a DX-based chassis. If it took your bonus action as well I suspect it would be fine.

One more comment: you've mentioned before that you like -5/+5. I'm curious what you think of the notion of allowing -5/+5 on heavy weapons/missile weapons to everybody as an option, no feat required, and making the feat be what grants -5/+10. I view -5/+5 as so marginal as to be almost worthless, so I wouldn't bundle it into a feat--but you seem to view it as highly worthwhile, so wouldn't offering it for free to everyone help even out any disparity? Just a thought.

YMMV.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thanks,

(And yes: I agree that any feat that really is a trap before level 12 (or whenever you have maxed out your prime stat) should be marked as such for benefit of newbs and math-allergic players)

My main concern is removing -5/+10 from the game entirely.

Since several math savvy forumists agree with you in -5/+5 being worthless*, and since I still maintain that replacing that entire "power attack" schtick of the feats with a "boring" +1 ASI, I guess -5/+8 would be the reasonable compromise.

*) I still maintain that looking it only from a DPR perspective is narrow. Yes, -5/+5 doesn't help you increase DPR. But it does help you increase damage on a hit, which is still pretty impressive. If only when you need to hack off a padlock, or axe yourself through a door. Completely ignoring the "you only need to hit the side of a barn" case is pushing it in my opinion. I'm not saying the cases where AC < 10 are commonplace, but they're definitely there.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

*) I still maintain that looking it only from a DPR perspective is narrow. Yes, -5/+5 doesn't help you increase DPR. But it does help you increase damage on a hit, which is still pretty impressive. If only when you need to hack off a padlock, or axe yourself through a door. Completely ignoring the "you only need to hit the side of a barn" case is pushing it in my opinion. I'm not saying the cases where AC < 10 are commonplace, but they're definitely there.

They certainly are, and I see them occasionally in game. Zombies and oozes come to mind.

You don't have to compromise. If you like -5/+5, you can stick with it.