Scared of PC Homebrew--Help Please!

[Road_Runner]

Hi,

So I'm about to DM (for the first time) and one of the party members is a known power gamer who never seems to think his stuff is broken. Anyways he is planning on playing an Erudite with some spell-power variant but he says "when that gets banned" (note: not "if" -- I guess he is assuming he'll break it so hard he'll force me to zap him) he's going to play this homebrew he made up himself:

Uttercold Marshal 3.5 Base Class PEACH - Giant in the Playground Forums


He claims it is tier 3. I'm interested in what you guys think are any unbalanced points with this homebrew. I'm not too familiar with leadership or the monster manuel in general, so any criticisms/warnings would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Dandu]

STP Erudites are discussed here. It's on the same power level as the wizard, cleric, druid, and etc.

Don't have time to comb over the PRC, but none of the spells it gets to cast seem broken.

 

[Road_Runner]

Ok, yeah I imagine you guys might not want to read the whole thing, so here are some issues I find (although by no means the main strengths of the class)

12th level: Guardian Wings (Ex): While in Dragon Form he gains wings that allow him to fly with perfect maneuverability at 60ft move speed and use the spell wings of cover once a round as a reactive non-action.

8th level: Boreal Haze (Sp): For 2 rounds / charisma modifier per day the Uttercold Marshal can surround himself in a sleet storm spell effect that he can see perfectly in. He also detects invisible targets within this range. Activating this ability is a swift action and deactivation is a free action. Other Uttercold Marshals also see through this affect. He may use this ability on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent using this ability does not exceed double his charisma modifier.

13th level: Arctic Pillar (Sp):The Uttercold Marshal freezes the ground within a 10-30ft radius, chosen at the time of use, in an emanation around the Uttercold Marshal. An ice slick effect covers this area. The next round any creature standing in the area is frozen as a massive pillar of ice shoots up into the sky. At the end of the round the ice then shatters killing the frozen creature. (no save) Spell resistance is effective against this effect. This deals 10d6 cold damage to those whose cr is higher than the Uttercold Marshal’s ECL. This ability affects the Uttercold Marshal.

 

[Dandu]

Ok, yeah I imagine you guys might not want to read the whole thing

Quite frankly I stopped wanting to read it after seeing the atrocious picture in the beginning.

The abilities you posted do seem rather overpowered.

 

[Ydars]

I am nonplussed. Why are you 'scared' of anything any of your players does. YOU are the DM and have the right to say no to anything you are not comfortable with. If you have never DMed before, my first piece of advice is only to allow the feats and classes in the PHB. If your friends are annoyed with this, remind them of your inexperience.

Your 'friend' is a being very inconsiderate to assume that he is allowed to play a homebrew class; I have been DMing 3.5 for 7 years and I would NEVER allow a homebrew class in my games. To try and put you in such a position when you have never DMed before; this guy sounds like he enjoys being annoying.

Also, you contradict yourself; you say your friend doesn't ever admit his builds are broken yet you also state that he expects you to ban one. This suggests that he enjoys abusing other DMs and dictating things to them.

I have read the Uttercold thingy and I can't say I have ever seen a more unbalanced class. A base class that recieves a special ability at every level, has the most powerful offensive spells on its spell-list, can command more undead than a cleric or Dread Necromancer, and that can wear light armour and is proficient with martial weapons. COME ON! This is ridiculous. and totally unreasonable.

And that is before even looking at any of the abilities in detail; most of them are seriously unbalanced.

So in summary, this is a BLATANT attempt to try and out one over on you and you need to find a way to stop it right now. I would be asking myself if I really need this player in my group, given his history.

 

[Dandu]

I am nonplussed. Why are you 'scared' of anything any of your players does. YOU are the DM and have the right to say no to anything you are not comfortable with. If you have never DMed before, my first piece of advice is only to allow the feats and classes in the PHB. If your friends are annoyed with this, remind them of your inexperience.

Within the PHB, you'll probably want to watch out if the player picks Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, or Cleric as they don't need expansion material to be broken.

 

[RainOfSteel]

[...] he's going to play this homebrew he made up himself:

Uttercold Marshal 3.5 Base Class PEACH - Giant in the Playground Forums

GM: "Right after I revise your homebrew class to fit my campaign's standard power levels is when you can take it." (If he says he won't take the changes, then he won't be playing it.)

I noticed "necromantic" and "undead minions" right off the bat. Since undead figure prominently as enemies in so many milieus, if this were any ordinary type of setting, it would seem logical to expect local authorities and champions to view anyone playing this class as an enemy just on principle and probably by religious mandate, as well. Steps would be taken. It would make playing the character awkward with Paladins chasing him or her around.

Assuming an acceptance of necromancy and undead minions in the general campaign environment, and a thorough revision nerfing the whole class massively, I would then allow it. The auto-kill on Arctic Pillar is especially ridiculous and would be first on the chopping block.

It also seems strange that a player would just automatically assume that something as specialized as this would fit into your milieu (or anyone's milieu).

 

[Arkhandus]

.........So, it's basically a cleric with nonsensical base saving throws for its HD and magical focus, and roughly 10 bonus feats in place of some spells, 4 minor Marshal auras in place of a few more spells, gains approximately 5 spells as spell-like abilities useable several times per day, eventually gains the benefits of a template, early on gains a short- to mid-range at-will area attack equivalent to a warlock's eldritch blast but slightly different and capable of bull rushing victims rather well, quickly gains an extra (albeit weak) attack each round in melee that can also freeze an opponent's limb temporarily, gains significant cold resistance, gains an ability at least as good as the Shadow Blade feat from Tome of Battle or possibly twice as good, gains an awesome at-will short-range teleportation with only a tiny fraction of the restrictions of a higher-level Shadowdancer's Shadow Jump, gains the capacity to control roughly 50% to 100% more undead through Animate Dead, gains the capacity to control twice as many undead through Rebuke Undead, eventually increases his followers' levels by 1 though that hardly matters, and gains THREE ridiculously overpowered special attacks or transformations useable at least once per encounter (or more!)........... Also, an obvious ripoff of at least 2 anime series, Bleach and Naruto.

I could say I've seen more-broken classes before, but I might be wrong since I can't think of any right now. It's a munchkin cheese-fest of damage boosts, DR/ER/SR-bypassing (or mitigating) attacks, massive undead legions, constant teleportation, frequent free concealment (with added benefits!), decent melee ability (at least given the fact that they can teleport away after attacking, to avoid their d6 HD becoming too much of a liability, not to mention all the ways they can freeze opponents in place or gain concealment or cover or the like, and all the disposable minions to throw in the enemy's way), and mediocre offensive spellcasting.

Perhaps suggest that he play a Warmage (Complete Arcane) or Duskblade (PHB 2) instead? Multiclassing as an Elemental Savant or some other such cold-appropriate prestige class later, perhaps? At least they're somewhat less broken and easier to deal with. Of course, as the DM, you can just say "NO" to anything that you don't consider appropriate in your game.

 

[Pergentile]

If you don't realize that you are GOD the instant you sit down to the table for your first session, you should not attempt to DM with anyone who isn't a good DM themselves or at least a very experienced player and will support you in the learning process.
Almost anyone with a brain and experience knows its more fun to play WITH the group then to play by yourself alongside the group.

 

[Empirate]

DO NOT allow this homebrew. In fact, until you're vastly more experienced both at DMing and at 3.5 optimization, do not allow any homebrew whatsoever. Restrict your players to a few books (Core only, plus Completes if you feel you can handle it), and slowly build your game skills from there.

The three abilities you've posted alone are quite, quite unbalanced. This guy seems to know what he's doing, since the thing he seems to aim most for is breaking the action economy. Whenever I read 'swift action' in an ability's description, I get leery. When I read 'free action' or even 'nonaction', I'm not inclined to believe my eyes, unless the ability granted is really weak.
The ones you posted are NOT weak. In fact, the Sleet Storm effect is likely to totally dominate any given combat, while the Wings of Cover thing (as a nonaction... ) makes him effectively invincible. Instant Death is just icing .
The ability to control lots and lots of undead underlings is obviously a method of breaking the action economy even further. The rest of the class seems along the same lines.
The 'weaknesses' built into it (low HD, middling BAB, relative lack of powerful spellcasting) are just methods to divert attention from the class' broken abilities.


Let's take a step-by-step:

Tomb-Tainted Soul, gained at 1st level, is better than the feat of the same name. Even Dread Necromancers must take the feat and don't gain it as a bonus feat.
Control Ice, gained at 1st level, is an at-will move action that can be used to force enemy creatures to move away. The author goes to great lengths to explain how this is not able to trap enemy creatures - thus diverting attention from the fact that he'll be able to do it all the time without spending his standard action, rearranging the battlefield (probably even creating difficult terrain etc.) as suits him.
Rime Dragon (2nd) is basically Eldritch Blast plus Repelling Blast, that gets bigger with levels. Warlocks would like to have this.
Frost Blade (3rd) is a multipurpose tool that grants very high Cold Resistance for the level and can be used to deal damage, debuff opponents, and do Spiked Chain goodness. It also seems this Spiked Chain is an extra attack that happens without taking up an action.
Inspirational Fighting (4th) is about a +2 bonus to attack and initiative at low levels, much more at higher levels. Effectively makes up for the middling BAB.
Animate Dead (5th) is a spell-like ability for this guy, so he saves a lot of money on that black onyx.
Flash Step (5th) is a per encounter, swift action teleportation effect. At 5th level. Ouch.
Undead Commander (6th): You gain Leadership (which may be the only broken feat in Core), but much better, as a bonus feat. Nuff said.
Boreal Winds (7th): A 5th level spell as a spell-like ability several times per day. At 7th level. Nuff said, once again.
Bonus Feats: He gains 5 Corpse Crafter or Leadership bonus feats. I'm beginning to wonder what he'll use his regular feat slots on, since all the stuff that would be good with this class' abilities he gets as a bonus feat...
Boreal Haze (8th) will begin this guy's total dominance. Up to now, he's been better than others, but not outright broken. From now on, expect every battle to go exactly as this guy wants it: on his turn, he'll activate it (swift action), and whenever he feels an ally might be able to do something effective, he'll turn it off (free action). He'll not only be able to see in the Boreal Haze, but also detect invisible creatures (something he couldn't do until now), eliminating a potential weakness of this class. Use whenever you feel like it, for just as long as you need it! His Cohort is, BTW, unaffected... horrible stuff, to be sure.
Undead Legion (9th) finally puts Dread Necromancers in their place where controlling undead is concerned. Was about time.
Dragon Form (10th): very good self buff, usable as a move action, and 1/encounter. Arguably as good as or better than Barbarian Rage. I'm detecting a theme here.
Arctic Pillar (11th): I'm not really getting this ability, it seems a no-save instant kill to anything up to a CR of this guy's level. The "This ability affects the Uttercold Marshal" clause is actually good for the Marshal, as it heals him instead of damaging him. We're slowly advancing into total brokenness wonderland here.
Guardian Wings (12): Flight, sure, why not, you need it at this level, even if the maneuverability is perfect. Another potential weakness covered. Plus Wings of Cover (good, even broken spell on its own) without even spending the immediate action on top of that? Wow. I'm not sure what to say. This guy is now immune. As in, to whatever happens to come up.
Greater Rebuke (14th): Aside from the fact that at 13th we only gain a bonus feat (what's happened to our beautiful 'one-overpowered-class-feature-per-level' rule?!), this puts things right again, in breaking the undead control even further. Do you have any idea what epic-level monsters this guy can have hanging around now?
Grave Knight (15th): 'Look mommy, I just gained 16 points of ability score bonuses!' Plus other good stuff, of course. This isn't even the capstone. I'm feeling we're far beyond the borders of Ridiculoustan by now.
Demonic Ice Mirror (17th): Now this is approximately the equivalent of a 9th level spell, which is OK for the level. The Marshal can use it 1/encounter without spending resources, though.
Great Leader (18th) won't do much, it's only followers after all...
Legendary Commander (20th): As a capstone, we gain an epic feat (just) before epic levels. Hmm.
(I'll not go into spells - they're good, but seem more of an afterthought.)


Most of the stuff here aims at three things:
1. breaking the action economy (getting effects for no or little actions yourself; denying actions to your enemies; followers and cohort, animated Undead, and controlled Undead make for many, many effective bonus actions),
2. getting benefits without opportunity cost (lots of bonus feats; lots of per-encounter powers; underlings provide additional versatility),
3. saving on the character's resources (effects like flight and detection of invisible creatures, which don't seem like a natural forte of the class' theme and would consequently have to be bought as items, are granted as class abilities for no reason at all; spell-like abilities use no costly materials, especially black onyx).


Seriously, the very fact that you have to ask about his homebrew's viability shows that you need to get more experience under your belt before you even think about allowing homebrews!