D&D 5E (2024) Scoring abilities of 2024 Species (and looking back to MotM)

[Parmandur]

@Kobold Stew are you familiar with Karl David Brown's work reverse engineering how WotC builds stuff? At the very least, I think he makes a convincing case as to how WotC builds stuff out, worth a lok:

Race Design for D&D 5th Edition Creating New PC Species - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Race Design for D&D 5th Edition Creating New PC Species - The second edition of my Copper Best Seller. Revised and updated. WOTC’s PC ‘races’ for 5th edition fall short of

www.dmsguild.com

 

[abirdcall]

Tiefkings are quite a bit stronger than you rate.

Poison is the most common damage type with fire not far behind. I bet we are going to see a lot more necrotic with the new MM.

Poison spray is good now.

The spells in general are mostly good.

Abyssal > infernal > Cthonic probably.

At first glance I think Halflings are the weakest and also the ones most affected by class choice.

Humans might actually be next.

In general they seem fairly well balanced though.

 

[Kobold Stew]

@Kobold Stew are you familiar with Karl David Brown's work reverse engineering how WotC builds stuff? At the very least, I think he makes a convincing case as to how WotC builds stuff out, worth a lok:

Race Design for D&D 5th Edition Creating New PC Species - Dungeon Masters Guild | Dungeon Masters Guild

Race Design for D&D 5th Edition Creating New PC Species - The second edition of my Copper Best Seller. Revised and updated. WOTC’s PC ‘races’ for 5th edition fall short of

www.dmsguild.com

Thanks for this. Yes. If I'm not mistaken, he assumes all races are of equal value; I don't think that's true, and so his a priori seems to me fundamentally incompatible with my approach. I appreciate the shout-out, though.

 

[Kobold Stew]

The human heroic inspiration is rated 3 for example but musician is likely in the party and will be providing many more points. It is not as flexible as it seems since you get it at the end of a long rest.

I would rate it a 1.

I considered this, but didn't think it was right to presume that there was an entertainer (or a Human who took the musician feat) in every party.

If you aren't playing with strict backgrounds (what we have in the PHB so far), then I might agree.

I also think getting a 2nd origin feat is not very strong. You rate 3 skills at 4.5 and spellcasting traits at 4. I would give this ability 5.

I take your point, here, but I don't think I agree. So many builds become possible with things like Arcane Initiate (Wizard) that otherwise wouldn't. In the game I'm DMing, two experienced players chose Human for the extra feat. Admittedly, some origin feats are more effective than others, and not every feat is of equal value, but the strong ones are (like Musician, as you point out earlier in your message!). As a result, I pegged it the upper end of the range, though, because the feat is ALWAYS relevant (with no trade-offs with skills and stat bonuses).

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[mamba]

I expect to see many of the MotM races in the first 'of Everything' book for 2024

 

[Parmandur]

Thanks for this. Yes. If I'm not mistaken, he assumes all races are of equal value; I don't think that's true, and so his a priori seems to me fundamentally incompatible with my approach. I appreciate the shout-out, though.

He does assume that WotC has an internal system that they believe to be consistent and balanced, yes. Thing is, I think he successfully proves that they are operating that way, and his reverse engineering of how WotC values (or doesn't value) things has explanatory value.

Last I went over, I believe his point valuation still holds for 2024 Species being equal across the board, but with a slight power bump from 2014.

 

[Parmandur]

I expect to see many of the MotM races in the first 'of Everything' book for 2024

I half-suspwct thst the DMG or MM will provide a lot of effective PC options for the NPC adjustment table, since 2024 Species are easier to apply as NPC templates than 2014 were.

 

[abirdcall]

I considered this, but didn't think it was right to presume that there was an entertainer (or a Human who took the musician feat) in every party.

If you aren't playing with strict backgrounds (what we have in the PHB so far), then I might agree.


I take your point, here, but I don't think I agree. So many builds become possible with things like Arcane Initiate (Wizard) that otherwise wouldn't. In the game I'm DMing, two experienced players chose Human for the extra feat. Admittedly, some origin feats are more effective than others, and not every feat is of equal value, but the strong ones are (like Musician, as you point out earlier in your message!). As a result, I pegged it the upper end of the range, though, because the feat is ALWAYS relevant (with no trade-offs with skills and stat bonuses).

Thanks for the feedback.

Musician or no, 1/long rest is so few as to barely be noticeable.

The thing with humans in 2024 is that they are fine for all classes but also don't stand out.

Which is a good place for them to be.

The problem with rating them is defining what you are rating them for. If players had to take classes at random then they would be the best race. But other races are going to shine more for specific classes.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I love that you took the effort to write all of this out! I do disagree, of course, with the valuation of certain features...

Superdarkvision in regular play is not really better than regular Darkvision - the important thing is just having any in the first place. It does enable engaging from max 120ft range against enemies with only regular Darkvision, but unless the whole party is building dwarves/drow/orcs and prepared to fight every encounter in open spaces at moonless nights, I would not say this is worth a whole point.

Holding breath / amphibious are ribbons, not worth any points. Natural weapons are worth nothing as well, unless they are horns/bite/hooves (as those don't need free hands, which could be niche useful for grapplers).

Many race special abilities are overcosted. Lizardfolk bonus action bite / unarmored AC are the most glaring example, because you are not going to have a build that makes use of both, so they should not be counted as separate features. Orc Relentless Endurance should be at most half the cost, because you are aiming to not ever use it (and even if you do, everything in the game has multi-attack, it likely won't keep you standing). Dwarf tremorsense swings between amazing and utterly useless based on how the GM treats 'must be in contact with same surface'. Goliath giant size is mainly just a 1/day speed boost... but if you're a grapple build then it's suddenly amazing, so good luck valuing that.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Elves are a curious case, as their features aren't universally applicable, but they have strong niches (trance gives more time to scribe scrolls, pass without trace is still busted, choice of cantrip enables single-class non-Arcane Trickster True Strike Rogues). And access to Elven Accuracy is just ridiculous with so many more sources of free advantage around (Vex in particular).