Scott Rouse blog - Rogue ability

[FadedC]

I don't have any axe to grind on the subject.

There you go using those WoWisms again

Sorry I couldn't help it....

 

[WhatGravitas]

Would you prefer 1st grade reading style instead?

The rogue attacked the hobgoblins.

The hobgoblins were hurt.

The hobgoblins friends were angry.

The angry hobgoblins ran to help their friends.

The angry hobgoblins hurt the rogue.

The rogue was worried.

He didn't like being hurt.

The rogue's big, strong friends came to help.

Some hobgoblins died.

The rogue ran away.

Okay... get this man a cookie, a big one!

Cheers, LT.

 

[JohnSnow]

I don't think the box is quite that black.

We don't have a lot of detail on "per day" powers, but I'd bet most of those (for martial types) come in the form of per day abilities available to previous classes. Like the Knight's challenge ability, or barbarian rage, or something similar. Interestingly, you find some interesting stuff when you look at the earlier Design & Development articles from the context of more modern information. From two separate articles, there's this:

Design & Development - Class
Fighters:Choice of Weapons

Here’s a highly probable conversation lifted from the future, one year from today, as two players who’ve just met at a convention discuss their PC choices for their upcoming D&D game.

“I’m playing a 3rd-level human fighter named Graelar.”

“Cool. Is he weapon and shield or two-hander?”

“He’s sword and board, man.”

“Longsword?”

“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”

“My elf fighter uses a spear. I like the speed and the option to go past AC. But you’ve got the fighter covered. I’ll play a halfling rogue.”

The names and destinations of the powers mentioned above might have changed by the time the game is in your hands. What won’t change is that fighters care about which weapons they use much more than other characters. Other character classes have specific weapons and weapon types that they tend to rely on while still maintaining access to a larger chunk of the weapon chart. The fighter is the only current 4th Edition class with capabilities that depend on the weapon they have chosen to train the most with. Even at 1st level, a fighter who uses an axe has a different power selection than a fighter who relies on a flail or a rapier or a pick. In the long run, fighters can diversify and master powers related to a few different weapons, but most will opt to focus on the weapon that suits their personal style, helps their interactions with the rest of the PCs in the group, and carries all the magical oomph they’ve managed to acquire.

Many fighters will opt for swords. Swords have the most flexible assortment of powers. In a fighter’s hands, the longsword is the queen of the battlefield and the greatsword is the queen’s executioner. But each of the other significant melee weapons offers the fighter unique advantages and opportunities. For the first time, you’ll be able to say “I’m an axe fighter” or “I’m a flail fighter” and that will mean something cool.

And, from just after that came out, there was this:

Design & Development - Power Source
Martial Power Source

In terms of flavor and description, the martial character/athlete analogy guided many decisions about the way martial characters push themselves beyond the limit. At low levels, martial characters have abilities that are impressive but don’t stretch the boundaries of what is or is not possible. Only at the highest levels do we see martial characters verging into the truly impossible acts of agility and strength attainable only in fiction.

Weapons and how fighters use them provided a blueprint for their design. A skilled halberdier can hack a foe with his weapon’s blade and spin around to smash a second foe with the haft. A fighter with a longsword disarms her foe with a flick of her wrist, while a battle hungry axeman cleaves through shields, armor, and bone. The design for fighter maneuvers came down to looking at weapons, figuring out how a fighter could use one, and deciding on special effects that felt cool for the weapon and proved useful for the class. Check out the Design & Development column on fighters and their weapons for more on this concept.

Rogues have a similar relationship with skills. A nimble rogue dives through the air to tumble past an ogre, while a charismatic one tricks an enemy into looking away just before she delivers a killing blow with her dagger. Just as fighters do more with weapons than any other character, rogues push skills beyond the limits that constrain other PCs.

The martial power source is about taking resources and abilities that have clear limits for other classes and demolishing those limits through focus, training, and skill.

I'm guessing the much-maligned (and to-be-renamed) "Dragon's Tail Cut" is a martial power that's specific to sword wielders. Sounds like sunder might be more available to mace and axe wielders and disarms might be more for the sword guys.

It seems likely that the 3 step adjustment Scott's referring to is something akin to that "dive through the air to tumble past an ogre" ability.

It'll be interesting to see what abilities they have in store for rangers that isn't either a) treading on the fighter's toes or b) treading on the rogue's toes.

 

[Reynard]

Would you prefer 1st grade reading style instead?

The rogue attacked the hobgoblins.

The hobgoblins were hurt.

The hobgoblins friends were angry.

The angry hobgoblins ran to help their friends.

The angry hobgoblins hurt the rogue.

The rogue was worried.

He didn't like being hurt.

The rogue's big, strong friends came to help.

Some hobgoblins died.

The rogue ran away.

At least you didn't deny the WoW part.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Would you prefer 1st grade reading style instead?

The rogue attacked the hobgoblins.

The hobgoblins were hurt.

The hobgoblins friends were angry.

The angry hobgoblins ran to help their friends.

The angry hobgoblins hurt the rogue.

The rogue was worried.

He didn't like being hurt.

The rogue's big, strong friends came to help.

Some hobgoblins died.

The rogue ran away.

You know the rogue is obviously the villian in the story? The 1st graders would be cheering when the hobgoblins drove off the nasty rogue! But what about the rogue's big strong friends?

 

[helium3]

Would you prefer 1st grade reading style instead?

The rogue attacked the hobgoblins.

The hobgoblins were hurt.

The hobgoblins friends were angry.

The angry hobgoblins ran to help their friends.

The angry hobgoblins hurt the rogue.

The rogue was worried.

He didn't like being hurt.

The rogue's big, strong friends came to help.

Some hobgoblins died.

The rogue ran away.

Someone's gonna post this to the "things WotC employees have said that insulted me" thread on the Paizo board. I'm just saying.

 

[helium3]

The same way you'd do it now.

Keep the battlescape in your head and adjudicate fairly based on description.

Of course, it's greatly easier to know where people are relative to each other using a battlemat and minis/tokens/dice/stuffed animals.

Brad

Fair enough.

Having never played 3rdEd without a battle-mat, it's hard for me to imagine how someone would even handle the five foot step without a mat much less 15 foot/3-square moves. So, for those rare individuals that play D&D sans mat, I feel their pain.

 

[JohnSnow]

At least you didn't deny the WoW part.

Ooo...a witty retort. We are agog at your repartée.

Seems to me like someone failed a Sense Motive (sarcasm) check.

 

[Scott_Rouse]

You know the rogue is obviously the villian in the story? The 1st graders would be cheering when the hobgoblins drove off the nasty rogue! But what about the rogue's big strong friends?

The rogue's big, strong friends left him to die.

They had children in daycare.

The End.


BTW this all gets a big

 

[PeterWeller]

I don't know which MMORPG designer had the brain-fart that made him go "Hey, I know what'll make for a great class! A character that's all about taking damage! We'll call it "the Warrior", beacuse "the Gimp" is already taken!" but that (and the fact a lot of people actually got so used to it they think it's ok, the result of some inevitable natural law - "For every DPS, there has to be a sucker to soak it up", or something) is probably the single worst thing those games have to answer for.

I'm pretty sure whoever it was got the idea from playing D&D and seeing fighters stand in front of monsters to keep them away from the squishy wizards, who at all but the lowest levels, were the ones doing the real damage. The "tank" archetype has been around a lot longer than any MMO. If you really want to get upset about MMOs influencing D&D, you should look at how the rogue is becoming more of a "DPS" ("DPT?") pump than a sneaky scoundrel.
Now, I have to admit I like Rogues becoming more stabby, it's a lot better role than guarding the exit and sneak attacking a guard here and there, and to accomplish being more stabby, they also need to be more survivable. Mobility and avoidance abilities like this one go a long way towards making them so.