Scott Rouse blog - Rogue ability

[BadMojo]

Is it just me or is this discussion starting to get a bit silly? I think I can find a solution to this debate.

So, we all know that a grinder is another name for a hoagie, Hoagy Carmichael wrote the song Stardust, Neil Gaiman wrote a book called Stardust which was made in to a major motion picture, iocane powder comes from Australia, there have been rumors of a World of Warcraft movie so...yeah.

Seriously, back to that rogue. As someone else mentioned, most mid-level rogues have enough ranks in tumble to make moving through a threatened square without AoO almost an automatic thing anyway. I like the fact that it takes this away from being three boring rolls you almost can't miss to a class ability that, presumably, will be limited in # of uses per encounter.

 

[Snapdragyn]

In order to Tango, you have to ready an action to assist another party member in the move... since, you know, it takes two.

*ducks*

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Therefore, if I'm grinding a lens (as in entry one), I'm doing something MMORPGish?

Your skill in Lenscrafting has improved! (11)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

When a term is co-opted by a particular group, it becomes jargon and identified with that group regardless of its origins.

So, at the shoe store, do you ask the sales lady to stop using computer lingo when she attempts to sell you boots?

This is a ridiculous assertion, Reynard, even by Internet standards.

 

[szilard]

Whatever a "shift" is (I suspect condition rather than movement), it was part of a 'cool attack.'

I find this interesting - the attack either improves your physical condition or gives you movement or somesuch.

-Stuart

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I'm quite sure this is the case. From what I can tell from the stuff they've released, they're completely switching to describing distances in squares rather than feet.

Also, if the rogue has a class ability that allows him to move three squares in certain situations, how am I going to handle this if I'm not using a battle-mat and minis?

The same way you'd do it now.

Keep the battlescape in your head and adjudicate fairly based on description.

Of course, it's greatly easier to know where people are relative to each other using a battlemat and minis/tokens/dice/stuffed animals.

Brad

 

[The Little Raven]

Thank you for making my point. In this context, it is WoW jargon, and obviously so.

No, as a WoW player, grind is never used when there's a fear of death. Grind is only used when you're performing the same task over and over again (grinding experience, grinding materials, etc) in a relatively simple place (with simple enemies, etc).

In the way he used it, he was referring to it kinda like a meat grinder, since he stated his rogue was almost hamburger. Tons of weaker characters doing small damage to a target is grinding away at him.

 

[The Little Raven]

When a term is co-opted by a particular group, it becomes jargon and identified with that group regardless of its origins.

Well, I guess then we can no longer use the word "die," since pasta makers use it to refer to the implement through which they shape their pasta and it's now their jargon. Man, I totally hate that different groups can't have jargon that uses the same word with different meanings. Down with this fascist control of language by... ummm... ourselves.

*puts down the Kool-aid*

 

[med stud]

I think it sounds like an interesting ability. I think that mobility of rogues can be done in a more interesting way than it is now, especially considering that the skill Tumble makes the feat Mobility pretty pointless and to a certain degree Spring Attack. Instead of having two separate ways of avoiding AoOs conflicting they can clear those abilities up.

About WoWisms: If MMORPGs have invented good terms for something, why not use them? Lots of people are engaging in MMORPGs and they are bound to come up with usable terms. In this case, though, I think you really have to look for WoWisms to find them.

One of the good things about a PnP- game is that you never have to do a CRPG- style "grind" just to level and get items. The AI is generally too good for that kind of tactics in tabletop D&D . That makes it very unlikely that Scott Rouse used the term grind in the WoW sense.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Things like "a cool attack that gives me a 3 step shift" is why a lot of the stuff I read about 4E leaves me cold.

Well, I hope they cut a bit back on the words "cool" and "fun", because I read them a bit too often. But to my luck, the rest of the blog posts are usually pretty interesting (and convincing) too me.

I wonder also if the sentence would have sounded better to you if he would have used the name used for the attack/maneuver. (I mean, Sneak Attack sounds a bit better than "the cool nameless attack that lets me deal extra damage when I take a specific position").

It might also be a problem that the Designers are just too much inside the design ideas, and are thus describing this more from the designer view than from the view a normal player would describe it. It's possible that it feels a lot less "gamist" when actually done in play.
But that's might not be the case (and I suspect so). I suppose these abilities are more like spells for non-spellcasters. Spells in D&D are interesting, but a individual spell is usually inflexible and are pretty "gamist" thing. If it feels to gamist/artificial, this might be the first real design flaw I can see with D&D 4. But I remain optimistic, because too many other things sound interesting and well thought out to me...