Scout's skirmish ability

[Kaffis]

I need some input on interpreting the Scout's abilities.

After reading the description of the Skirmish ability, it seems to me that it is not as useful as I first thought.

Since the skirmish damage depends on the Scout moving at least 10 ft. in the round. Isn't that going to limit the Scout from getting the additional skirmish damage when taking a full attack action since he has to move more than 5 feet to get the extra damage?

It seems less useful than the Rogues sneak attack to me. At least the Rogue can do the additional sneak attack damage on a full attack action if the conditions are right for each attack.

In addition, why give the Scout trapfinding if you don't give him Disable Device as a class skill.

What changes would you recommend to this class if any at all to use it? I was thinking make the skirmish damage as sneak attack (without the movement requirement), or would that be too unbalancing for the class?

As has been noted, mounts are your friend; failing that, manyshot (and even better, greater manyshot -- plain manyshot lets you do all your arrows + skirmish x1; greater lets you skirmish on each arrow since you're making multiple rolls).

As for being less useful than sneak attack -- sneak attack at range is a real pain to actually get off beyond the beginning of combat. Rehiding stinks, etc. Remember, you can't flank at range, and you don't benefit from other party members' flankings.

Basically, remember the very requirement to skirmish is to be mobile; and that mobility has its own power. You've got some range on your opponent, you get AC bonuses to charges or return ranged fire, and you can pull all this off if caught solo (again, as was mentioned) or in other situations when your enemies are concentrating on you -- which would preclude a rogue from re-hiding typically.

The only underpowered thing I see in skirmish is that it's limited to 30 feet. I think I'd probably house rule that to 60', just to accentuate the benefit of range.

The thing I find most interesting about the scout is the inclusion of blindsight abilities. Coupled with range and an incentive to move around, a scout who picked up a level or rogue or a few levels of cleric so as to be able to cast some darkness would be pretty intimidating -- arrows from all around in the darkness. *shudder*

 

[Kaffis]

On another note, if you don't think flanking a target is a tactic in combat, then I don't know what is.

It's *a* tactic. But not a particularly hard or difficult one, nor even particularly creative. At least, not when we're talking tumbling. Which any rogue worth his salt will laugh at. Now, flanking in a party of dwarves in plate -- there you have to get creative and actually make some tough calls. Step around to flank (with my 3-square move!) and take the AoO so we can get the bonus to attack, or risk whiffing a full attack again?

 

[ThirdWizard]

Clarification:

Flanking a group of well organized enemies is not easy, nor reccomended.

Flanking a disorganized enemy might be worth it.

Flanking a single enemy is usually trivial.



But, that's what monks are for. Tumble behind, and ready an action to tumble away right after the rogue attacks. It's not like the monk can actually attack the enemy himself. (I kid because I love!).

 

[FireLance]

Just out of curiosity, any ideas for good scout PrC's? I only spotted one in CAdv that actually had skirmish.

There's a goliath racial PrC with skirmish in Races of Stone. If I'm not wrong, that was the first appearance of the skirmish ability in WotC books.

Dervish also synergizes very well with the scout. Dervish dance allows you to move and still make full attacks, so you can get your skirmish bonus to damage on multiple attacks in a round.

 

[Shellman]

It's *a* tactic. But not a particularly hard or difficult one, nor even particularly creative. At least, not when we're talking tumbling. Which any rogue worth his salt will laugh at. Now, flanking in a party of dwarves in plate -- there you have to get creative and actually make some tough calls. Step around to flank (with my 3-square move!) and take the AoO so we can get the bonus to attack, or risk whiffing a full attack again?

But we are not talking about a party of dwarves in plate are we!

 

[Shellman]

Rogue sneak attack tactics: only pick on something that's hitting somebody else; tumble with a DC15 check to flank. Not rocket science by any means.

No body said flanking to gain sneak attack was difficult for any decent Rogue. The point in the first place was that "Flanking is a commonly used combat tactic both in the fantasy world and the real world". I don't care if it is easy to accomplish.

But back to the original point about the Skirmish. I don't see to much difficulty in the Scout's skirmish ability. I mean, come on....How hard can it be to simply move 10 ft to gain the extra damage? At least the Rogue has to close within the targets threat range.

 

[Anthelios]

Quick Draw, Daggers, Combat Reflexes. The Skirmish ability doesn't state you need to be moving "Toward" the target.

Move back, throw dagger, draw another. They move up, giving you attacks of opportunity. The sickest part, it says you gain the armor bonus for the full round that you moved, turning those attacks of opportunity even more to your advantage.

This class seems like it would be great for a solo game.

Especially when teamed up with a monk, and take shot on the run down the line.

 

[daemonslye]

Move back, throw dagger, draw another. They move up, giving you attacks of opportunity. The sickest part, it says you gain the armor bonus for the full round that you moved, turning those attacks of opportunity even more to your advantage.

Wouldn't you draw an AOO from moving back? Additionally,
why would you get an AOO when they move up unless you
had reach?

~D

 

[Random Hero]

Spring attack for melee scout

Shot on the run for ranged scout (really nice)

As for the skills, scout has one of the most impressive skill trees that I have seen any class. it may not have disable device (but trapfinding to find the traps anyway) but it has survival. It also has speak language as a class skill! Go cunning linguist!

I don't think that there anything to complain about here... If you like a rogue better play one, if you like the scout better play one... They are different for a reason!

NO CHANGE! (I'm a Republican....it scares me....)

 

[Shellman]

Well,

For me, I have decided to go with a Rogue/ Ranger multiclass. This way my guy can be the Woodland Scout and the Dungeon Trap Detector and actually be able to disable a trap if need be.

The Scout class is a great idea, but I still feel that 5d6 Skirmish damage at 20th level is weak. In the games I play in, many of the bad guys are going to have DR to take out most of that if not all.

Best luck to all of you in your gaming.