Second opinion wanted: gaming group

[JoeGKushner]

I see what you're saying. Originally, I took it as, "No clerics will join the party." as opposed to "If the party doesn't seek out clerics." I've been in games where the GM flat out did not have any NPCs of almost any church join us in the Forgotten Realms and let me tell you, in Waterdeep, there are a lot of good churches with adventuring priests and for all of them to say no, well, seems lame at best. This is what I mean by punishing the PCs.

"We seek to hire a cleric of mighty Tempus to guide our prayers on the battlefield and heal our wounds after."

"All of the Tempus priests have died in honorable combat."

"Oh Torm, grant us defense against the evils of the world!"

"Torm's priest must stay and guard the town in case of attack. Surely you understand."

Stuff like that where there are no options and the players are forced to make a cleric, are lame.

 

[Nightfall]

Hardly no. I just have gamed with people that just WON"T play clerics and thus don't actively seek them out. (In RL mind you. The smart online players know better.) If however said party says "Gee can we find a nice shrine and maybe convince a nice cleric to come with us." I'll let them take an apprentice along or something like that depending on the church and fees involved. I feel for you Joe. Gaming like THAT sucks. Gaming where the party just blindly won't take a cleric...well their own damn fault wouldn't you agree? But I would never force the issue that way. It's just lame as you said.

 

[Telperion]

Okay, let's start by saying that the problem isn't quite as bad as it might seem at the outset. First of all there are some very useful spells in RR1 & RR2, that allow arcane casters to handle undead in an effective manner.

Aside from that detail I have already e-mailed my players, and they know about the lack of cleric in their group. One of the players is considering a change of character. A bit of a last minute change, but doesn't really create a problem for me. I have several plots going on in the inner circles of the divine communities, so getting someone in there isn't a bad idea. On the minus side they lose one wizard-fighter, but gain the support of Chardun and his church (not necessarily the same thing). Of course the word "support" might be a bit wrong in this case...

In any event the party will most likely end up hiring a cleric, if they don't have one in their group at the beginning of the game. It will cost them, but then again so do those 150 mercenaries, which they keep around to protect their mansion and town (not to mention their loyal subjects) from raiders, other nobles and the occasional titanspawn problem.

 

[blakwind]

So, here's the thing:
Starting level: 6
...
I was thinking of throwing a venerable, retiring, (level 8) cleric of Chardun into their group....

I would think twice before introducing an NPC companion that is higher level than any of the PCs. IMHO, games where NPCs shine brighter than the PCs aren't much fun for the players. YMMV.

It seems to me that an NPC that shores up the party's weaknesses without stealing the show would be a fine solution.

Edit: fixed typo.

 

[Telperion]

I would think twice before introducing an NPC companion that is higher level than any of the PCs. IMHO, games where NPCs shine brighter than the PCs aren't much fun for the players. YMMV.

It seems to me that an NPC that shores up the party's weaknesses without stealing the show would be a fine solution.

That's exactly what I'm aiming at. Someone who can support the characters at the beginning without seeming like a deus ex machina. It's a tricky thing to pull of correctly, but I can always say the old priest dies of a heart attack, if he begins to bug my players. Plus, he really doesn't have the hp's to wade into close combat. Most of those cleric levels were gained after reaching middle-age, so there's a large minus in his con-mod (-6 on str, dex and con after all), which wasn't all that great to begin with.

Hm...come to think of it: I could drop this old man to 7th level, since he doesn't really need to be on level 8. I don't want him casting 5th level spells, so no going to level 9. Seven seems fine enough . He can still pull out a fairly heavy spell a couple of times a day, and that's good enough.

 

[Telperion]

And just to clarify things a bit more:
I'm not planning on this NPC cleric hanging around for a long time. He is supposed to die at the end of the 1st chapter (out of a total of 5 chapters) anyway. If he gets killed before the chapter ends it doesn't really matter to me.

 

[Nightfall]

Okay, let's start by saying that the problem isn't quite as bad as it might seem at the outset. First of all there are some very useful spells in RR1 & RR2, that allow arcane casters to handle undead in an effective manner.

Aside from that detail I have already e-mailed my players, and they know about the lack of cleric in their group. One of the players is considering a change of character. A bit of a last minute change, but doesn't really create a problem for me. I have several plots going on in the inner circles of the divine communities, so getting someone in there isn't a bad idea. On the minus side they lose one wizard-fighter, but gain the support of Chardun and his church (not necessarily the same thing). Of course the word "support" might be a bit wrong in this case...

In any event the party will most likely end up hiring a cleric, if they don't have one in their group at the beginning of the game. It will cost them, but then again so do those 150 mercenaries, which they keep around to protect their mansion and town (not to mention their loyal subjects) from raiders, other nobles and the occasional titanspawn problem.

Make sense Tel. Course I do agree dealing with Undead in the Scarred Lands isn't that hard. No more than other settings, especially for arcane spellcasters.

Dead clerics are a staple in my games anyway Tel. Hiring out clerics of Chardun shouldn't be that hard then if they can afford mercs. Course not all Chardunites favor mercs, seeing them as kind of shiftless. Even the most bloodthirsty warlord likes to know whom he can trust and not worry about shifting loyalties. Even so, keeps them on their toes.

Nice work Tel and if you do kill the cleric, hey I'm sure there's always the chance Chardun will bring the guy back! Undead of course.

 

[Telperion]

Make sense Tel.

Now, this is what happens when I start planning/writing in the middle of the night...

 

[Nightfall]

Now, this is what happens when I start planning/writing in the middle of the night...

Sokay I do some my best planning then too.