Secrets of Xen'drik -- who has it?

[Hellcow]

How about we just have the Trust wipe out the drow to protect the elemental secrets?

Yeah, that is the best answer. Mourning the site from orbit... it's the only way to be sure.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

Yeah, that is the best answer. Mourning the site from orbit... it's the only way to be sure.

Regdar: "Hey Warforged, have you ever been mistaken for a man?"
Warforged: "No, have you?"

Ahh.. I could do this all day...

Jason Bulmahn
1 of 3 SoX Authors
Managing Editor of Dragon

 

[Hellcow]

Ahh.. I could do this all day...

That explains that puzzling entry in the Scorrow description -

Environment: They mostly come at night... mostly.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Agreed. But I think the key here is that it's not "ripped off" as much as "were inspired by." It's like a group of cavemen finding an automobile and figuring out how to reverse-engineer it. They'd never be able to do it without having the automobile to work with. But even once they HAVE the automobile, figuring out how to make their own requires immense creativity and ingenuity. As a major supporter of the gnomes, I don't want to downplay their achievements in the field... that the fact that there aren't dozens of other elemental factories across Khorvaire shows that there's more to the science of binding than just duplication (though it also speaks to the ruthlessness of Trust enforcers determined to keep trade secrets!).

Hmmm... Any chance of getting a Dragonshard (or Dragon article for that matter) on the Zil version of Area 51? *hint* *hint*

 

[Glyfair]

I just picked up my copy today. I have to say, this particular book puts lie to the theory that WotC is all about holding a DMs hand. I think 75% of the book is barebones ideas that can be combined and fleshed out. About half of the rest are suggestions for making minor changes to stock things to add mystery and make them your own.

This might be the first book I actually get off my butt and review (which will likely lead to me reviewing other books).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Ok, you've blown my mind. Is this stated in the ECS?

I find that this idea, like most of the post-ECS stuff that I've come across, dilutes rather than enhances 'my' Eberron. I much prefer the Dal Quor of eternal dreams. I dislike the idea of Dal Quor rebooting and much prefer an abiding, evil, ancient beyond imagining and with a grudge to bear against the giants and all Eberron.

Fortunately, there is no problem with running 'my' Eberron, and I've informed all the players that they should assume that nothing beyond the ECS is 'in'.

There was so much that was great in the ECS which was either pretty much ignored or re-written in things such as Races of Eberron or Magic of Eberron, which I think was a real pity. I would love to have seen more building on existing ideas and less re-imagining of things that were already explained in a different way.

Cheers

 

[Spatula]

There's nothing in Races of Eberron that contradicts the ECS... I'm sure the full backstory of the dreaming dark and the kalashtar was in place, but there's only so much room in the ECS and it had a lot of ground to cover (plus there's suppliments to sell down the road).

 

[Glyfair]

I I would love to have seen more building on existing ideas and less re-imagining of things that were already explained in a different way.

I don't think this was explained differently. It just wasn't included for space reasons.

Still, Eberron is very much about options and not using it is an option. However, there is a very cool item with a history tied into this in SoX. I introduced it into my Eberron game, but they are very stubbornly avoiding exploring it.

 

[Hellcow]

There was so much that was great in the ECS which was either pretty much ignored or re-written in things such as Races of Eberron or Magic of Eberron, which I think was a real pity. I would love to have seen more building on existing ideas and less re-imagining of things that were already explained in a different way.

I CERTAINLY advocate your right to do whatever you want in your campaign, and firmly believe that the material presented in books should never prevent you from taking the world in a new direction.

At the same time, as the person who wrote both the kalashtar/Inspired material in the ECS and in Races of Eberron, I can say with some confidence that RoE does not ignore the ECS. From the very beginning, the point of the Path of Light has been to guide Dal Quor into its new age. The struggle of the kalashtar has always been one of spiritual warfare. And the Inspired's actions in Sarlona – the slow spread of Inspired control, establishing a monolithic state where creative thought is minimized – has always been tied to the principle "as below, so above"… that stagnation in Eberron would result in a stable Dal Quor.

This may not be entirely CLEAR in the ECS; one of the most common complaints I heard about the ECS was that people didn't get the kalashtar, and one of the most common compliments I've had about RoE is that readers now understand what they are about. Still, the ECS had minimal room for Quori material. If you took your game in another drection, that's great. But RoE didn't ignore the material presented in the ECS; it clarified and expanded upon it.

I dislike the idea of Dal Quor rebooting and much prefer an abiding, evil, ancient beyond imagining and with a grudge to bear against the giants and all Eberron.

First off, I'd say that if you want "an abiding, evil, ancient beyond all imagining and with a grudge to bear against the (creature type) and all Eberron", you've just described the Lords of Dust. They ARE the eternal, primal evil – the shadow that remains from the dawn of Eberron, still holds its grudge against dragon and couatl, and waits for the day when its full power will be unleashed once more.

Second, I'll point out that with the time differential, the current subjective age of the Dreaming Dark is approximately 370,000 years old… older by far than any existing civilization on Eberron, including that of the dragons (as their war with the rakshasa ended approximately 100,000 years ago). Dal Quor has always been a realm of powerful, iconic forces, and it always will be. Throughout human history, that force has been il-Lashtavar, the Darkness that Dreams. If the kalashtar succeed in their struggle, it will eventually be transformed into il-Yannah, the Great Light… and they believe this will in turn herald a new age of light for Eberron.

So on the one hand, you have the Lords of Dust, the native, eternal evil of Eberron itself. On the other, you have Xoriat, a realm of terror whose lords wish to corrupt and destroy Eberron and leave its shattered husk in their wake. And on the gripping hand you have the Dreaming Dark, a malevolent force that has been present throughout the rise of human, elven, and goblin civilization. It is ancient, but alone of these three, it is a force that could be unseated (according to kalashtar belief, at least). And the secret to that victory may lie in the past.

The key to the turning of the age is that it is the defining point of the struggle between kalashtar and Inspired. It means that the Quori of the Dreaming Dark are in their own view engaged in a struggle for the survival of their entire culture; that while to humans they may appear as pure evil, in their eyes that are simply fighting to survive, as all creatures must. This is one of the things that gives the Quori the unswerving loyalty to their cause often lacking among fiends. It makes them slightly more complex villains than the Order of the Emerald Claw – yes, they're evil, but what would YOU do in their place?

It also means that the QUORI don't know what secrets lie in Xen'drik – that there can be artifacts hidden in Xen'drik that have great value to them, things they can't create on their own because they were not present for that war and do not know what forces were brought to bear. I like this both as a limitation on Quori omnipotence and as a place where PCs can potentially fight agents of the Dark openly. As I run them, in Khorvaire, 99% of the time you'll never realize you were engaged in a conflict with the Dreaming Dark; in Xen'drik they don't need to be quite so secretive.

Again, I respect that you use them in a different way, and I encourage you to continue doing so. I'm sorry you don't care for our approach. However, as the person who wrote the Quori/Dal Quor/Inspired/Kalashtar material in the ECS, Races of Eberron, the Player's Guide to Eberron, and the Dreaming Dark novels, I beg to differ with the statement that these latter books ignore the ECS.