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D&D 5E Seeking help with my 7th lvl Vengeance Paladin.

NSleepy12

Villager
Hello and thanks for checking in!

I hope the post isn’t too long but wanted to help those that might help me with as much info as possible.

I am pretty new to 5e but I have been playing D&D for many years. I’m looking for some help with where to go with my character from lvl7 (which incidentally is where I started). I was asked to join a campaign in progress that had someone drop out (they were the cleric). Not wanting to play a Cleric I opted for Paladin. This is an evil campaign (based in Talingarde, I personally don’t know the campaign but it’s out there so please no spoilers, we are almost at the halfway mark of the ritual). I’m about to go to 8 and the campaign is designed to run all the way to 20.

Some background on the character:
Zailaia Umbermoor the Patient

Paladin - Vengeance
Tiefling - Zariel - Cult of Zariel
Dueling Style
Background - Faction Agent - Cult of Zariel Member

Traits—Dislikes those that shy away from battle and especially those that run. Tactical retreats aren’t necessarily running. —Nobody stays angry at me or around me for long, sincecan usually defuse any amount of tension, unless it’s advantageous to keep the tension.
—I love a game of chance, even though I’m not really good at them, this ends up costing me at times.

Ideal—Aspiration. I seek to prove myself worthy of my god’s favor by matching my actions against his or her teachings.

Bond—I will someday get revenge on the corrupt (Mitra) temple hierarchy who branded me a heretic.

Flaw—Once I pick a goal, I become obsessed with it to the detriment of everything else in my life.

STR: 18, DEX: 8, CON: 14, INT: 12, WIS: 12, CHA: 18

FEATS: Polearm Master

Current Preferred Fighting Style:
+1 Infused Returning Spear, Sentinel Shield and Adamantine Armor.

WHERE TO GO FROM HERE?
Don’t think I want to go the Warlock route or even really think I want to multi-class but open to options, especially if they fit thematically.

I was think of going Resilient: CON or Sentinel for my next ASI. Beyond that I dunno really. Any help is greatly appreciated. Tips and Tricks for spell selection welcome 😁
 

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Bayushi_seikuro

Adventurer
You could go Sentinel (which I find pretty solid, especially if you want to keep those people from running) or maybe Warcaster - you can do any somatic component while wielding a weapon or shield, you get advantage on Con saves to keep concentration, and also instead of an AoO, you can cast a spell at the creature fleeing that has a 1 action casting and targets only one creature.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
You could go Sentinel (which I find pretty solid, especially if you want to keep those people from running) or maybe Warcaster - you can do any somatic component while wielding a weapon or shield, you get advantage on Con saves to keep concentration, and also instead of an AoO, you can cast a spell at the creature fleeing that has a 1 action casting and targets only one creature.
Thank you for your input.

How would Warcaster work in conjunction with something like Relentless Avenger? Would I still get my move if I hit with an AoO spell that is an attack? Not too many Paladin attack spells, I think. Unless I go Warlock for EB?
And if I did say take Sentinel then Warcaster at 12 would I get a spell as an opponent moves into my reach?

I should go read Warcaster right now....
 

Arvok

Explorer
Since you already have Polearm Master I would consider taking the Sentinel feat and getting a hold of a halberd. Since it's a reach weapon you can hit an opponent who enters your reach with an opportunity attack, reducing his speed to 0. Then on your turn you can hit him (including a butt strike with a bonus action) and step back. Repeat as needed.

If your DM lets you trade magic items you could probably get a pretty nifty halberd to replace your spear and shield (since you wouldn't be using it much any more). Also, if he lets you use the options out of Tasha's you could trade out dueling style for Great Weapon Fighting or Blessed Warrior or Blind Fighting.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
From what I am reading I don’t think I would get Relentless Avenger proc’d if I used a spell from Warcaster as it says “rather than making an AoO”. 😢. Still a very viable option though.

Hope this isn’t too much for anyone reading but I have another piece that I’m trying see if I can get more of.
Guaranteed Crit hits—Being a Cult member of Zariel allows me 1/short rest to turn a normal hit into a critical (ferocious surge). Are there more ways to get the same effect?
 

NSleepy12

Villager
Since you already have Polearm Master I would consider taking the Sentinel feat and getting a hold of a halberd. Since it's a reach weapon you can hit an opponent who enters your reach with an opportunity attack, reducing his speed to 0. Then on your turn you can hit him (including a butt strike with a bonus action) and step back. Repeat as needed.

If your DM lets you trade magic items you could probably get a pretty nifty halberd to replace your spear and shield (since you wouldn't be using it much any more). Also, if he lets you use the options out of Tasha's you could trade out dueling style for Great Weapon Fighting or Blessed Warrior or Blind Fighting.
I know its not necessarily maximizing Sentinel but that still works if they step into my 5’ reach, right? Then I could use RA to move away and they would be stopped?

I do have a Glaive on hand incase I do need reach.

Similar note, In addition I could use the spear of Returning to throw twice, move partial next to someone, hit with blunt end and move away to get ready for Sentinel again?
 

Bayushi_seikuro

Adventurer
From what I am reading I don’t think I would get Relentless Avenger proc’d if I used a spell from Warcaster as it says “rather than making an AoO”. 😢. Still a very viable option though.

Hope this isn’t too much for anyone reading but I have another piece that I’m trying see if I can get more of.
Guaranteed Crit hits—Being a Cult member of Zariel allows me 1/short rest to turn a normal hit into a critical (ferocious surge). Are there more ways to get the same effect?
I suspect that you're right that Warcaster gives you a spell instead of the OA, and since it looks like Relentless Avenger requires an OA to happen, I don't know that they substitute for each other. Probably a DM call.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
I suspect that you're right that Warcaster gives you a spell instead of the OA, and since it looks like Relentless Avenger requires an OA to happen, I don't know that they substitute for each other. Probably a DM call.
Thanks, that’s what I reading too. I’ll still run it by my DM but I’m not that hopeful about it being allowed. Maybe if it was an (rolled) attack spell but even then.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
Since you already have Polearm Master I would consider taking the Sentinel feat and getting a hold of a halberd. Since it's a reach weapon you can hit an opponent who enters your reach with an opportunity attack, reducing his speed to 0. Then on your turn you can hit him (including a butt strike with a bonus action) and step back. Repeat as needed.

If your DM lets you trade magic items you could probably get a pretty nifty halberd to replace your spear and shield (since you wouldn't be using it much any more). Also, if he lets you use the options out of Tasha's you could trade out dueling style for Great Weapon Fighting or Blessed Warrior or Blind Fighting.
Oh, and he did just open up Tasha’s for the game but it wasn’t at creation. I was thinking Blessed Warrior was kind of cool too. It fits thematically as I am not shy about following Zariel and have aspirations to be by her side in Hell.
 

Arvok

Explorer
I know its not necessarily maximizing Sentinel but that still works if they step into my 5’ reach, right? Then I could use RA to move away and they would be stopped?

I do have a Glaive on hand incase I do need reach.

Similar note, In addition I could use the spear of Returning to throw twice, move partial next to someone, hit with blunt end and move away to get ready for Sentinel again?
As long as you are wielding a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff, or spear (and attacking only with that, so if you multi-class into monk and make an unarmed strike or something weird it wouldn't apply) you get to make an opportunity attack when an opponent enters your reach.

Of course, your DM has final say so you should talk to him before you plan too much. Also, he might let it apply to other weapons. Definitely talk to your DM and tell him what your character concept is and he should help you so that you can get what you want as long as it doesn't interfere with the overall theme.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
As long as you are wielding a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff, or spear (and attacking only with that, so if you multi-class into monk and make an unarmed strike or something weird it wouldn't apply) you get to make an opportunity attack when an opponent enters your reach.

Of course, your DM has final say so you should talk to him before you plan too much. Also, he might let it apply to other weapons. Definitely talk to your DM and tell him what your character concept is and he should help you so that you can get what you want as long as it doesn't interfere with the overall theme.
Appreciate you man. Yeah, I’ve had a bunch of talks with the DM about the character. We tend to go by the book/sage with most things, not to many house rules. I’m a bit more experienced in gaming, optimizing, DM’ing and such then him so I try not to go real hard, more for fun while still being competent. Was looking for some thoughts on where to go with the character and you’ve helped with that, so again, thank you.
 

ECMO3

Hero
Hello and thanks for checking in!

I hope the post isn’t too long but wanted to help those that might help me with as much info as possible.

I am pretty new to 5e but I have been playing D&D for many years. I’m looking for some help with where to go with my character from lvl7 (which incidentally is where I started). I was asked to join a campaign in progress that had someone drop out (they were the cleric). Not wanting to play a Cleric I opted for Paladin. This is an evil campaign (based in Talingarde, I personally don’t know the campaign but it’s out there so please no spoilers, we are almost at the halfway mark of the ritual). I’m about to go to 8 and the campaign is designed to run all the way to 20.

Some background on the character:
Zailaia Umbermoor the Patient

Paladin - Vengeance
Tiefling - Zariel - Cult of Zariel
Dueling Style
Background - Faction Agent - Cult of Zariel Member

Traits—Dislikes those that shy away from battle and especially those that run. Tactical retreats aren’t necessarily running. —Nobody stays angry at me or around me for long, sincecan usually defuse any amount of tension, unless it’s advantageous to keep the tension.
—I love a game of chance, even though I’m not really good at them, this ends up costing me at times.

Ideal—Aspiration. I seek to prove myself worthy of my god’s favor by matching my actions against his or her teachings.

Bond—I will someday get revenge on the corrupt (Mitra) temple hierarchy who branded me a heretic.

Flaw—Once I pick a goal, I become obsessed with it to the detriment of everything else in my life.

STR: 18, DEX: 8, CON: 14, INT: 12, WIS: 12, CHA: 18

FEATS: Polearm Master

Current Preferred Fighting Style:
+1 Infused Returning Spear, Sentinel Shield and Adamantine Armor.

WHERE TO GO FROM HERE?
Don’t think I want to go the Warlock route or even really think I want to multi-class but open to options, especially if they fit thematically.

I was think of going Resilient: CON or Sentinel for my next ASI. Beyond that I dunno really. Any help is greatly appreciated. Tips and Tricks for spell selection welcome 😁
I would take Paladin 8 and take a half feat for intelligence (fey touched or shadow touched are great), then multiclass into wizard at level 9. Pick up either diviner or war wizard at level 10. Get shield, absorb elements, a bunch of rituals. Down the road add spells like haste, fly etc.

The wizard spell slots will give you a bunch of extra smites and combined with portent or war wizard abilities and shield and absorb elements, they will help keep you alive more than a constitution boost will.

I prefer this to a sorcerer because the subclass abilities are better and the Arcane recovery gives you more slots.
 
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NSleepy12

Villager
I would take Paladin 8 and take a half feat for intelligence (fey touched or shadow touched are great), then multiclass into wizard at level 9. Pick up either diviner or war wizard at level 10. Get shield, absorb elements, a bunch of rituals. Down the road add spells like haste, fly etc.

The wizard spell slots will give you a bunch of extra smites and combined with portent or war wizard abilities and shield and haste, they will help keep you alive more than a constitution boost will.

I prefer this to a sorcerer because the subclass abilities are better and the Arcane recovery gives you more slots.
Thank you for your suggestions. I’m not familiar with those classes but I will get familiar. That is a much different route then I thought but this is why I here asking. Gonna check this path out now.
Do Wizards get spells back on a long or short rest? What’s Arcane Recovery, a feat or class ability?
 

ECMO3

Hero
Thank you for your suggestions. I’m not familiar with those classes but I will get familiar. That is a much different route then I thought but this is why I here asking. Gonna check this path out now.
Do Wizards get spells back on a long or short rest? What’s Arcane Recovery, a feat or class ability?
Wizards get spell slots back on a long rest. Arcane recovery is a 1st-level ability that wizards get that returns one half of there level in spell slots (rounded up) once a day after a short rest. So at 1st level it is 1 slot. At third level it is one second level slot or two first level slots etc.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
Wizards get spell slots back on a long rest. Arcane recovery is a 1st-level ability that wizards get that returns one half of there level in spell slots (rounded up) once a day after a short rest. So at 1st level it is 1 slot. At third level it is one second level slot or two first level slots etc.
Ah ha, great! Thanks again. Giving this some serious thought
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Hello and thanks for checking in!

I hope the post isn’t too long but wanted to help those that might help me with as much info as possible.

I am pretty new to 5e but I have been playing D&D for many years. I’m looking for some help with where to go with my character from lvl7 (which incidentally is where I started). I was asked to join a campaign in progress that had someone drop out (they were the cleric). Not wanting to play a Cleric I opted for Paladin. This is an evil campaign (based in Talingarde, I personally don’t know the campaign but it’s out there so please no spoilers, we are almost at the halfway mark of the ritual). I’m about to go to 8 and the campaign is designed to run all the way to 20.

Some background on the character:
Zailaia Umbermoor the Patient

Paladin - Vengeance
Tiefling - Zariel - Cult of Zariel
Dueling Style
Background - Faction Agent - Cult of Zariel Member

Traits—Dislikes those that shy away from battle and especially those that run. Tactical retreats aren’t necessarily running. —Nobody stays angry at me or around me for long, sincecan usually defuse any amount of tension, unless it’s advantageous to keep the tension.
—I love a game of chance, even though I’m not really good at them, this ends up costing me at times.

Ideal—Aspiration. I seek to prove myself worthy of my god’s favor by matching my actions against his or her teachings.

Bond—I will someday get revenge on the corrupt (Mitra) temple hierarchy who branded me a heretic.

Flaw—Once I pick a goal, I become obsessed with it to the detriment of everything else in my life.

STR: 18, DEX: 8, CON: 14, INT: 12, WIS: 12, CHA: 18

FEATS: Polearm Master

Current Preferred Fighting Style:
+1 Infused Returning Spear, Sentinel Shield and Adamantine Armor.

WHERE TO GO FROM HERE?
Don’t think I want to go the Warlock route or even really think I want to multi-class but open to options, especially if they fit thematically.

I was think of going Resilient: CON or Sentinel for my next ASI. Beyond that I dunno really. Any help is greatly appreciated. Tips and Tricks for spell selection welcome 😁

I'd stay Paladin.
I would recommend resilient Con as you'll want to have the option of buffing with haste soon and haste is a spell you don't want to lose mid combat.
At level 12 I'd recommend maxing Charisma.

Strong Paladin Spells:
Level 1

Bless
Command
Protection from Evil and Good
Wrathful Smite

Level 2
Find Steed
Lesser Restoration

Level 3
Aura of Vitality
Dispel Magic
Revivify

And of course your Oath Spells are amazing. Many of the higher level spells are as well.

One of the coolest things you can do is Cast Find Steed or Find Greater Steed, cast Haste on yourself (which also affects the Steed - granting you amazing movement while mounted). Since Haste also increases the steeds speed and allows for a disengage action you can often employ hit and run tactics exceptionally well.

Command - Flee can cause enemies that can understand you to flee - essentially costing them 2 actions if successful and the spell scales very well with level.

Bless makes an exceptional prebuff spell if you are fighting enemies with strong save or suck effecks.

Lesser Restoration and Dispel Magic can be used to break allies free from many effects that are causing them to lose actions.

Aura of Vitality makes for a very potent out of combat heal.

Wrathful smite gives you the ability to function as the party tank by forcing an enemy to have disadvantage on your allies.

Hold Person/Hold Monster/Banishment from the Vengeance Paladin list are excellent control options that have a chance of single handily winning some encounters for you.

Dimension Door off the vengeance paladin list makes for an excellent retreat option if things turn really bad.

If you pay attention I think you'll find many opportunities to use your spells for far greater effect than divine smites. Not that using divine smites is ever a bad option.
 

Arvok

Explorer
Something to keep in mind about smite: you can choose to burn a spell slot on smite after your roll the die. A lot of players don't realize this. That means when you're fighting a boss you can dump your highest level remaining spell slot on a smite AFTER you roll a natural 20. Be sure to have plenty of d8s on hand.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
I'd stay Paladin.
I would recommend resilient Con as you'll want to have the option of buffing with haste soon and haste is a spell you don't want to lose mid combat.
At level 12 I'd recommend maxing Charisma.

Strong Paladin Spells:
Level 1

Bless
Command
Protection from Evil and Good
Wrathful Smite

Level 2
Find Steed
Lesser Restoration

Level 3
Aura of Vitality
Dispel Magic
Revivify

And of course your Oath Spells are amazing. Many of the higher level spells are as well.

One of the coolest things you can do is Cast Find Steed or Find Greater Steed, cast Haste on yourself (which also affects the Steed - granting you amazing movement while mounted). Since Haste also increases the steeds speed and allows for a disengage action you can often employ hit and run tactics exceptionally well.

Command - Flee can cause enemies that can understand you to flee - essentially costing them 2 actions if successful and the spell scales very well with level.

Bless makes an exceptional prebuff spell if you are fighting enemies with strong save or suck effecks.

Lesser Restoration and Dispel Magic can be used to break allies free from many effects that are causing them to lose actions.

Aura of Vitality makes for a very potent out of combat heal.

Wrathful smite gives you the ability to function as the party tank by forcing an enemy to have disadvantage on your allies.

Hold Person/Hold Monster/Banishment from the Vengeance Paladin list are excellent control options that have a chance of single handily winning some encounters for you.

Dimension Door off the vengeance paladin list makes for an excellent retreat option if things turn really bad.

If you pay attention I think you'll find many opportunities to use your spells for far greater effect than divine smites. Not that using divine smites is ever a bad option.
Would you say that Res: CON is better to take then Warcaster? Seeing as I’m sword and board and have a +4 from my CHA Aura and a +2 from CON. Adding prof to con saves is nice but it seems as though Advantage + the other percs might be better. If I go +2 CHA at lvl 12 that’ll be another +1. Being in Auto save territory with Res: CON is nice though.

Thanks for the tips on the spells, they will come in handy. Find Steed is definitely one that I’ve been looking at. Just so happens we’ve completed a ritual to summon a Nightmare recently that follows my commands. And yes, I can’t wait for haste to come online!! It and similar concentration spells are why I’m not immediately taking Sentinel and giving this next level so much thought.
 

NSleepy12

Villager
Something to keep in mind about smite: you can choose to burn a spell slot on smite after your roll the die. A lot of players don't realize this. That means when you're fighting a boss you can dump your highest level remaining spell slot on a smite AFTER you roll a natural 20. Be sure to have plenty of d8s on hand.
Thanks, this is actually something I do keep in mind very much so. With my ability to turn any normal hit into a Crit, albeit limited, has made me very conscious of when to use my divine smites.

Question though, I’m unclear on if you can use multiple spell slots for divine smite on a single attack? ie; using a lvl 1 and 2 or even 2, 2, & 2 on the same attack damage roll?

P.S. Pretty stoked actually about last week. Acquired a +1 Flame tongue long sword from a foe. I know it doesn’t work with my Polearm Master but on that one attack that I plan on using my crit for with Divine Smite, Flame tongue and Hunters Mark up that will be some crazy damage to the BBGG 😉.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Would you say that Res: CON is better to take then Warcaster? Seeing as I’m sword and board and have a +4 from my CHA Aura and a +2 from CON. Adding prof to con saves is nice but it seems as though Advantage + the other percs might be better. If I go +2 CHA at lvl 12 that’ll be another +1. Being in Auto save territory with Res: CON is nice though.
Res Con will guarantee your concentration saves against most hits. If you want to regularly utilize concentration spells on the frontline, then that's a must IMO. Also, it provides a defensive benefit toward Con saves - which are fairly common and can have some very annoying effects.

Warcaster helps on saves. It provides an OA benefit mainly to characters with Booming Blade (something you won't have staying straight paladin). But it's true benefit is if you have off turn spells like shield you could cast while still having your weapon drawn. Unless you multiclass you won't have those and so while it's a good feat, it's not as good as Res Con for you.

Thanks for the tips on the spells, they will come in handy. Find Steed is definitely one that I’ve been looking at. Just so happens we’ve completed a ritual to summon a Nightmare recently that follows my commands. And yes, I can’t wait for haste to come online!! It and similar concentration spells are why I’m not immediately taking Sentinel and giving this next level so much thought.
I think that's a wise plan.
 

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