selling a spellbook
- Thread starter kengar
- Start date
Yep...the suggestion that the spellbook should be worth _more_ than the equivalent scroll value is ridiculous, unless variant rules are introduced specific to your campaign.
Scrolls are in every way more useful than what's in a captured spellbook. Spellbooks (by the core rules) should be worth significantly less than the equivalent scroll value, as they are considerably less useful.
Presence of rare or unique spells, of course, changes the equation.
-Skaros
Scrolls are in every way more useful than what's in a captured spellbook. Spellbooks (by the core rules) should be worth significantly less than the equivalent scroll value, as they are considerably less useful.
Presence of rare or unique spells, of course, changes the equation.
-Skaros
I have advocated valuing it based on how much it would cost to find a wizard to cast the spell for you, ignoring focus or material component costs.
Basically, this should be about what it costs for a Wizard to convince another Wizard to give them access to the spell in a spellbook. Allows someone to copy the spell into their own spellbook.
As others have already said, under the normal rules the only use a found spellbook has is providing a source to copy a spell out of. Until you've copied the spell (at 200gp per spell level cost), there is nothing you can do with the spellbook.
Rare or unique spells should be worth more. It is up to the GM to define rare or unique, although a good start is saying anything not in the PHB.
Basically, this should be about what it costs for a Wizard to convince another Wizard to give them access to the spell in a spellbook. Allows someone to copy the spell into their own spellbook.
As others have already said, under the normal rules the only use a found spellbook has is providing a source to copy a spell out of. Until you've copied the spell (at 200gp per spell level cost), there is nothing you can do with the spellbook.
Rare or unique spells should be worth more. It is up to the GM to define rare or unique, although a good start is saying anything not in the PHB.
kigmatzomat
Legend
Re: Re: Selling Spellbooks
Common misconception. Per the SRD:
Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks
A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell she already knows and has recorded in her own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured. First, the wizard must decipher the writing in the book (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Once a spell from another spellcaster's book is deciphered, the reader must make a successful Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level) to prepare the spell. If the check succeeds, the wizard can prepare the spell. She must repeat the check to prepare the spell again, no matter how many times she has prepared the spell before. If the check fails, she cannot try to prepare the spell from the same source again until the next day. (However, as explained above, she does not need to repeat a check to decipher the writing.)
Barring the above, you forget apprentices/mages in training. They had to learn those cantrips from somewhere, what better thing to give a proto-mage but a captured spellbook? It's not like it makes a difference who's spellbook they learn from. Might as well give them something you have no personal attachment to.
Personally, I set spellbooks' "retail" value as the same as creating a copy: 50gp per page (or 100gp/spell level, same thing). At low levels it is cheaper to buy scrolls while at midlevels the value of the scroll as a useable item should you fail to learn it might be worthwhile but at high levels the scroll is prohibitive, especially once you factor in components.
AuraSeer said:
Common misconception. Per the SRD:
Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks
A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell she already knows and has recorded in her own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured. First, the wizard must decipher the writing in the book (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Once a spell from another spellcaster's book is deciphered, the reader must make a successful Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level) to prepare the spell. If the check succeeds, the wizard can prepare the spell. She must repeat the check to prepare the spell again, no matter how many times she has prepared the spell before. If the check fails, she cannot try to prepare the spell from the same source again until the next day. (However, as explained above, she does not need to repeat a check to decipher the writing.)
Barring the above, you forget apprentices/mages in training. They had to learn those cantrips from somewhere, what better thing to give a proto-mage but a captured spellbook? It's not like it makes a difference who's spellbook they learn from. Might as well give them something you have no personal attachment to.
Personally, I set spellbooks' "retail" value as the same as creating a copy: 50gp per page (or 100gp/spell level, same thing). At low levels it is cheaper to buy scrolls while at midlevels the value of the scroll as a useable item should you fail to learn it might be worthwhile but at high levels the scroll is prohibitive, especially once you factor in components.
Azure Trance
First Post
Re: Re: selling a spellbook
May I ask what those are?
Rel said:
May I ask what those are?
Of QUITE some use is the rule from Magic of Faerun that lets you master a foreign spellbook. It does take a while, 10 days plus 1 day/spell in the spellbook
, but once done saves a LOT of money. All it takes is the time and a Spellcraft check of DC 25 + highest level spell (e.g. 34 if there was a 9th level spell). But, no, I wouldn't price it the same as scrolls. If you knew a wizard who could REALLY use the spellbook (i.e. you knew he didn't have a lot of the spells), you would have some leverage. If you just want to sell it to ye olde Magick Shoppe TM, the price drops considerably imo, maybe 20-25% market price of equivalent scrolls?
, but once done saves a LOT of money. All it takes is the time and a Spellcraft check of DC 25 + highest level spell (e.g. 34 if there was a 9th level spell). But, no, I wouldn't price it the same as scrolls. If you knew a wizard who could REALLY use the spellbook (i.e. you knew he didn't have a lot of the spells), you would have some leverage. If you just want to sell it to ye olde Magick Shoppe TM, the price drops considerably imo, maybe 20-25% market price of equivalent scrolls?
Rel
Liquid Awesome
Re: Re: Re: selling a spellbook
You certainly may. I've posted them before in other threads on this topic and had various people tell me that they were too easy or too tough on Wizards. So far I haven't had any problems with them.
The house rules I use are as follows:
1) Wizards do not gain two "free spells" every level when they advance in level. Every spell they add to their spellbook must be found as either a scroll or in another spellbook.
2) Scribing costs are dropped to 10gp per page (10% of normal cost). However, "Wizard's Ink" is a comodity that must be purchased and tracked. You can find it in most towns of at least medium size and it is possible to create it using Alchemy, if you have the right ingredients.
3) You may learn to use spells from another Wizard's spellbook without scribing them into your own. For each spell this takes 1 day per spell level and requires a Spellcraft Check of DC 15+Spell Level.
4) Although it has nothing to do with Wizards per se, I also allow "Sorcerer Specialization". Instead of giving one extra spell slot per day as Wizard specialization does, it gives one extra known spell from the chosen school at each level. Personally, I think that Sorcerers are a bit under powered compared to Wizards (with or without my other house rules) and this gives them a bit of a boost. It also gives a slight bonus to the "Themed Sorcerer" concept.
The recognizable effects of these rules are as follows:
1) The DM is now in complete control of what spells the Wizard will have access to. If he thinks that a particular spell is unbalanced, he can choose for it not to appear in the game. However, neither I nor any of the other DM's in our group have really abused this and if a player makes it clear that he would like to get his hands on Invisibility or Fireball, you can be reasonably sure that a copy will turn up in the not-so-distant future. BUT, this does assure that such things as "Rare Spells" occur in the campaign. Maybe Haste is a secret closely guarded by the Quickling Mages of the Black Mountains. This generates adventure hooks as both PC Wizards might wish to go questing for such spells and NPC Wizards might send the party on such a quest.
2) The DM no longer needs to hand out such a high level of coinage in treasure to assure that the Wizard is able to use his primary class ability (spell selection). By the same token, the Wizard needs to be mindful of how much Wizard's Ink he has on hand and make sure that he stocks up on it when he is in a town large enough to sell it. Alternatively, he can try to locate the proper ingredients and create his own using Alchemy. Such Ink also provides me a new form of treasure to hand out. (Note that this ink can also be used to scribe scrolls and I have similar comodities for all the item creation feats that I use as treasure: "Your succesful Alchemy check indicates that the cluster of mushrooms growing at the base of the Standing Stone would be worth 50gp as Potion ingredients.")
3) Found spellbooks now have value to almost any Wizard. The spells inside can be learned by another Wizard with a good Spellcraft. It is easier (although still not simple) to assign a value to a given spellbook based on what spells it contains. Even a book with the most common spells has a certain value as a backup spellbook while a book containing rare, hard to find, spells may be nearly priceless. Finding such a book is now a "Wow!" event for the party instead of being nearly meaningless as it is under the core rules.
4) Wizards need even more downtime than they used to. To me, this is a good thing because I like to have lengthy interludes between adventures while the group can take care of other business besides adventuring. It also means that "Spellbook Scribing" and "Scroll Scribing and other Item Creation" are competing for the Wizard's time. Hard choices are always interesting.
5) Because a Wizard can use an alternate spellbook or create a backup spellbook for a much lower cost than under the core rules, I don't feel like a complete bastard if something bad happens to his primary spellbook. Under the core rules, the Wizard must spend a TON of money just to keep his primary spellbook up to snuff. Creating a backup is often cost prohibitive. Under such circumstances, the DM must either pull punches to keep the spellbook from being destroyed or be willing to destroy it anyway, rendering the character nearly useless until he finds/creates a backup that will cost him another TON of money.
This post is long enough without me going into every minute way in which I think this improves the game for both the DM and the Wizard players. I prefer these rules because they maintain consistency and they give spellbooks a place in the economy of the world. If there are any other questions about these rules, I'd be happy to answer them. If you would rather not delve any further into my house rules here on the Rules forum, feel free to e-mail me.
Azure Trance said:
You certainly may. I've posted them before in other threads on this topic and had various people tell me that they were too easy or too tough on Wizards. So far I haven't had any problems with them.
The house rules I use are as follows:
1) Wizards do not gain two "free spells" every level when they advance in level. Every spell they add to their spellbook must be found as either a scroll or in another spellbook.
2) Scribing costs are dropped to 10gp per page (10% of normal cost). However, "Wizard's Ink" is a comodity that must be purchased and tracked. You can find it in most towns of at least medium size and it is possible to create it using Alchemy, if you have the right ingredients.
3) You may learn to use spells from another Wizard's spellbook without scribing them into your own. For each spell this takes 1 day per spell level and requires a Spellcraft Check of DC 15+Spell Level.
4) Although it has nothing to do with Wizards per se, I also allow "Sorcerer Specialization". Instead of giving one extra spell slot per day as Wizard specialization does, it gives one extra known spell from the chosen school at each level. Personally, I think that Sorcerers are a bit under powered compared to Wizards (with or without my other house rules) and this gives them a bit of a boost. It also gives a slight bonus to the "Themed Sorcerer" concept.
The recognizable effects of these rules are as follows:
1) The DM is now in complete control of what spells the Wizard will have access to. If he thinks that a particular spell is unbalanced, he can choose for it not to appear in the game. However, neither I nor any of the other DM's in our group have really abused this and if a player makes it clear that he would like to get his hands on Invisibility or Fireball, you can be reasonably sure that a copy will turn up in the not-so-distant future. BUT, this does assure that such things as "Rare Spells" occur in the campaign. Maybe Haste is a secret closely guarded by the Quickling Mages of the Black Mountains. This generates adventure hooks as both PC Wizards might wish to go questing for such spells and NPC Wizards might send the party on such a quest.
2) The DM no longer needs to hand out such a high level of coinage in treasure to assure that the Wizard is able to use his primary class ability (spell selection). By the same token, the Wizard needs to be mindful of how much Wizard's Ink he has on hand and make sure that he stocks up on it when he is in a town large enough to sell it. Alternatively, he can try to locate the proper ingredients and create his own using Alchemy. Such Ink also provides me a new form of treasure to hand out. (Note that this ink can also be used to scribe scrolls and I have similar comodities for all the item creation feats that I use as treasure: "Your succesful Alchemy check indicates that the cluster of mushrooms growing at the base of the Standing Stone would be worth 50gp as Potion ingredients.")
3) Found spellbooks now have value to almost any Wizard. The spells inside can be learned by another Wizard with a good Spellcraft. It is easier (although still not simple) to assign a value to a given spellbook based on what spells it contains. Even a book with the most common spells has a certain value as a backup spellbook while a book containing rare, hard to find, spells may be nearly priceless. Finding such a book is now a "Wow!" event for the party instead of being nearly meaningless as it is under the core rules.
4) Wizards need even more downtime than they used to. To me, this is a good thing because I like to have lengthy interludes between adventures while the group can take care of other business besides adventuring. It also means that "Spellbook Scribing" and "Scroll Scribing and other Item Creation" are competing for the Wizard's time. Hard choices are always interesting.
5) Because a Wizard can use an alternate spellbook or create a backup spellbook for a much lower cost than under the core rules, I don't feel like a complete bastard if something bad happens to his primary spellbook. Under the core rules, the Wizard must spend a TON of money just to keep his primary spellbook up to snuff. Creating a backup is often cost prohibitive. Under such circumstances, the DM must either pull punches to keep the spellbook from being destroyed or be willing to destroy it anyway, rendering the character nearly useless until he finds/creates a backup that will cost him another TON of money.
This post is long enough without me going into every minute way in which I think this improves the game for both the DM and the Wizard players. I prefer these rules because they maintain consistency and they give spellbooks a place in the economy of the world. If there are any other questions about these rules, I'd be happy to answer them. If you would rather not delve any further into my house rules here on the Rules forum, feel free to e-mail me.
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