Shadowdark Shadowdark General Thread [+]

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Random encounter rolls or just Colville-style "orcs attack!" are also reasonable solutions.

But yeah, the combo of real time torches + how much encumbrance torches take up in SD is definitely a solid solution.

I am always prepared to roll random encounters, especially if conversations get heated and the characters might be getting loud, but in practice, the threat of plunging them into darkness in Shadowdark has meant that's not been necessary in the way it has been in other systems.

 

[Velderan]

I am always prepared to roll random encounters, especially if conversations get heated and the characters might be getting loud, but in practice, the threat of plunging them into darkness in Shadowdark has meant that's not been necessary in the way it has been in other systems.

The nice thing about random encounters in SD is my players don't yet know the mechanic behind how often they could happen or what the chance is each time I roll, beyond me telling them "if your torch goes out, the chance goes up noticeably". They just see a roll on the VTT that they can't see the result of and usually someone responds with "we probably should get moving".

 

[Reynard]

In today's episode of Between Two Cairns, the hosts answer a mailbag (moodsack) question about how to stop players from endlessly deliberating about a course of action. They immediately say, "well, in Shadowdark, the real-time torch timer solves this," and then spend 15 minutes trying to come up with a general solution for other games. (They settle on "whatever's right for your game.")

I know a lot of people are skeptical about Shadowdark's torch timer, but it solves a real problem I think most DMs have encountered at some point, sometimes in every single session. I have some deliberators who play in my Shadowdark game, and even though we're playing online, I can feel their eyes watching the clock when they start discussing what to do.

I dropped the real time torch timer almost immediately. i understand that it solves a problem some people have, but I did not have that problem so it was more of a PITA and intrusion than it was worth.

I also dropped always on initiative early, too, mostly because I felt like that actually slowed the game down.

 

[overgeeked]

In today's episode of Between Two Cairns, the hosts answer a mailbag (moodsack) question about how to stop players from endlessly deliberating about a course of action. They immediately say, "well, in Shadowdark, the real-time torch timer solves this," and then spend 15 minutes trying to come up with a general solution for other games. (They settle on "whatever's right for your game.")

I know a lot of people are skeptical about Shadowdark's torch timer, but it solves a real problem I think most DMs have encountered at some point, sometimes in every single session. I have some deliberators who play in my Shadowdark game, and even though we're playing online, I can feel their eyes watching the clock when they start discussing what to do.

Time pressure is something that I think is really key. SD Torch, and various clocks (Daggerheart) that tick on Short/Long Rest? Great tools.

Random encounter rolls or just Colville-style "orcs attack!" are also reasonable solutions.

But yeah, the combo of real time torches + how much encumbrance torches take up in SD is definitely a solid solution.

Yes all around. It doesn't matter where the time pressure is coming from, why it's there, or what it is...only that some kind of time pressure exists. Wait too long and your torch burns down is just as compelling as wait too long and monsters attack (as long as those monsters are actually frightening), the ritual is completed, the princess eats the dragon, etc. As long as the PCs/players care about the consequences, you can make just about anything into a ticking clock.

 

[Fenris-77]

I'll be writing a lot of urban stuff in the next while as I do a couple of settlement sourcebooks and I'm going to be looking for other ways to use the torch timer to keep games skimming along (ways other than actually measuring how much torch you have left). I'm considering a unit of time called a 'watch' that might represent a couple of hours or so and using watch timers to keep things like investigations moving along. So something like you have two watches until the sun sets, who do you want to go talk to? I'm all for anything that helps alleviate planning paralysis.

I'm also going to faff around with a mechanic something like BitDs approach roll that will be responsive to a good plan of approach but that doesn't engender endless obsessing over details. Something that a lot of OSR games don't have is what I might call an environmental response roll. Urban environments are tightly packed, and I think that a roll to set the tone about what's going on when you get to a place could be quite valuable. 'Going on' in this case being a broader idea than simply how the NPC is disposed toward the PCs. What want to try and get away from is locations that seem like they were just waiting there for the PCs to arrive.

 

[Kromanjon]

My problem with the torch timer is simply that you have to keep it in mind when writing scenarios. I recently had an idea for a scenario after reading the most recent Knock! and the article about Flux Space. But the mechanic of Flux Space doesn't work with real time torches so I had to write that adventure using a different system (OSE in this case). The system is too unique to slot into any scenario, something that is otherwise one of the main selling points of OSR-gaming.

 

[Fenris-77]

My problem with the torch timer is simply that you have to keep it in mind when writing scenarios. I recently had an idea for a scenario after reading the most recent Knock! and the article about Flux Space. But the mechanic of Flux Space doesn't work with real time torches so I had to write that adventure using a different system (OSE in this case). The system is too unique to slot into any scenario, something that is otherwise one of the main selling points of OSR-gaming.

Y'know, I design for SD more than anything else, and I don't spend any time at all thinking about the torch timer, other than to make sure that some encounter results threaten the lit torches. If you're doing something scifi you won't break anything by simply not using the timer though.

 

[Kromanjon]

Y'know, I design for SD more than anything else, and I don't spend any time at all thinking about the torch timer, other than to make sure that some encounter results threaten the lit torches. If you're doing something scifi you won't break anything by simply not using the timer though.

Flux Space isn't sci-fi, rather it's a way to handle exploration of a large dungeon in a simplified way. I think it's pretty great and works with most ttrpgs, just not with one who uses real time mechanics. Check it out.

 

[kermit4karate]

My problem with the torch timer is simply that you have to keep it in mind when writing scenarios. I recently had an idea for a scenario after reading the most recent Knock! and the article about Flux Space. But the mechanic of Flux Space doesn't work with real time torches so I had to write that adventure using a different system (OSE in this case). The system is too unique to slot into any scenario, something that is otherwise one of the main selling points of OSR-gaming.

The torch doesn't literally have to be a torch, right? What about a power cell that powers a radiation suit, an air purifier or a headlamp for 1 hour?

 

[Retros_x]

But the mechanic of Flux Space doesn't work with real time torches so I had to write that adventure using a different system (OSE in this case).

I wouldn't say so. The idea of flux space is to abstract away the detailed exploration of "samey" large exploration - one turn is exploration of multiple hours. Regarding time abstraction and torch timer it is similar to wilderness exploration in SD - where you don't use the torch timer because one turn represents multiple hours of narrative time. You just don't use torch timer in flux space as you wouldn't in classic SD hex exploration. But, as defined in the blog article about flux space - the moment you "zoom in" to explore a point of interest in flux space you do classic exploring with map and key. Thats the moment you bring back the torch timer. When the game mode switches to detailed exploration of space.