Shadowfell Gloves and longer-lasting damage spells

[Perun]

I'm having a bit of a problem with the shadowfell gloves. The description (PH, 247) says:

Power (Daily, Necrotic): Minor Action. Change the damage type
dealt by the next arcane power you use to necrotic. Add 1d6 to the
damage dealt by that power (if any).

How do the gloves interact with powers that last over several rounds (like maintainable spells)?

For example, flaming sphere (Wizard Daily 1) does 2d6 + Int modifier fire damage on a successful hit. It can be sustained as a minor action, and the wizard can make other attacks with the spell using a standard action.

Do the shadowfell gloves affect every attack made by the modified flaming sphere, so that each successful attack deals 3d6 + Int modifier necrotic damage? Or is it just the first attack that gets the extra damage?

Also, what about "passive" damage? Flaming sphere normally deals 1d4 + Int modifier to all creatures that start their turn adjacent to the sphere. The gloves description says "add 1d6 to the damage dealt by that power". Does that apply -- it is damage dealt by the power, after all, and the gloves never specify it has to be "active" damage.

My knee-jerk reaction is to allow the extra damage to apply throughout the duration of the power since it is a daily item power (and thus usable once per day, unless the character carries multiple pairs of gloves), and the bonus damage doesn't really seem unbalancing. However, the extra damage scales at 16th and 26th level, and that might have a more significant effect on higher-level powers.

Has anyone encountered this (potential) problem this in their games? Thoughts? Comments?

Thanks in advance.

Regards.

 

[Kzach]

If there is one thing I've learned about interpreting 4e rules, it's that they're to be taken very literally.

In other words, you change all damage dealt by the power to necrotic damage and add 1d6 damage to it. That's it. 1d6, no more, no less. You don't do 1d6 per round. You don't do 1d6 per attack. You just add 1d6 once.

 

[Oompa]

If there is one thing I've learned about interpreting 4e rules, it's that they're to be taken very literally.

In other words, you change all damage dealt by the power to necrotic damage and add 1d6 damage to it. That's it. 1d6, no more, no less. You don't do 1d6 per round. You don't do 1d6 per attack. You just add 1d6 once.

But the sustain damage is still damage from the first attack, you dont have to make an attack roll again when you sustain..

I would rule, add 1d6 to all damage, even when sustaining..

Mind that this an daily power and someone who is getting hit by this will likely come to the one who casted it..

 

[robsenworldaccount]

Guys this new addition is very simple.

We are complicating it with our 3.5 edition mentality.

The gentlemen from before I feel is most correct.

Just interpret it literally. This will stop any circuitous routes of obtaining illegitimate power.

 

[Chen_93]

"Add 1d6 to the damage dealt by that power (if any)." If you add it each time the power deals damage you would be adding more than 1d6 to the damage dealt by the power. You add 1d6 once and that is all.

It would read "add 1d6 each time you deal damage with the power" if it was to work the other way.

 

[starwed]

Just interpret it literally. This will stop any circuitous routes of obtaining illegitimate power.

Ah, I forgot the rules were written in Lojban.

 

[IceFractal]

Add 1d6 to the damage dealt by that power (if any).

See, to my mind, that could just as easily be interpreted like this:
1) What is the damage dealt by the power? 2d6+Int
2) Replace that with "3d6+Int" in the power.
3) The power deals 3d6+Int damage when applicable, such as when you make another attack with it.


Also, the issue is complicated by spells with zones, like Stinking Cloud. Let's say you you cast Stinking Cloud on an empty area, so the initial attack isn't even a factor. The gloves don't require you to hit to get the extra damage, so presumably it applies to the Effect section when people enter the cloud. Two people enter the cloud this round - taking an extra 1d6 damage. Then the next round, two more people enter, and the original two stay. Who takes the extra 1d6 damage? And would that answer change if nobody had entered on the first round?

The part that makes the situation ambiguous is that the gloves do not say anything about dealing the damage once, or once per creature, or the initial damage of the spell. In fact, it even phrases it as "adding" to the damage dealt by the power - not "the power deals an extra 1d6 damage".

 

[IceFractal]

Oh, and "illegitimate power"? I wasn't aware that using abilities in a halfway synergistic way, instead of picking actions randomly from a hat, was considered illegitimate.

If you have a power that pushes people, you push them through damaging zones where possible (the DMG agrees on this). If you have an item that adds a small amount of damage to a power, you pick a power where that damage will get as many chances to apply as possible. That's a little something called "basic tactics" - use what you have to its full potential.

The developers hopefully understand this, so why would you assume they didn't already balance things to be used effectively? Just because you can fight unarmed, doesn't mean using a sword is broken.

 

[Chen_93]

As I posted it says "add 1d6 to the damage dealt by the power"

If I hit someone with flaming sphere for 10 damage and then he takes 5 damage on his turn from it, how much damage has the power flaming sphere dealt? Answer is obviously 15 damage.

The gloves allow me to add 1d6 to the damage dealt by the power. That means if I added the 1d6 to the flaming sphere attack AND the damage taken on the opponents turn, I in fact added 2d6 to the damage dealt by flaming sphere.

You add the 1d6 ONCE to the damage the power deals because that is EXACTLY what is written.

 

[Larrin]

Personally i think the extra 1d6 gets tagged on once. That really is the best and simplest interpretation. when you roll the first damage, you add an extra 1d6 in the mix, whoever would take the initial damage (even if its mulitple targets) takes the extra 1d6. Ongoing damage, sustained triggered attacks, secoundary attacks, NO. For zones/walls that don't deal damage until someone enters them, the first person to get set off any damage takes it. Think of it as an expenable charge. The first chance to deal the extra 1d6 it does, and thats it. This way every ability (more or less) benefits the same, not some powers can deal only 1d6 while others end up with an extra 10d6 over the course of a battle. RAW makes it sound very "one time"-ish (no 'every/each time' mentioned), so thats how i'd distribute it.