Shadowrun: sell it to me!
- Thread starter randomling
- Start date
Tsyr
Explorer
Paragon said:
Nah. Not even close. It's good, yes, better than Vancian and such IMO, but it doesn't hold a candle to the systems in Mage, Ars Magica, Unknown Armies, or Witchcraft.
Granted, though, all of those are games entierly dedicated to playing magic users, so I would expect them to have good systems
Ezrael
First Post
Slight hijack - just based on my reading of the Earthdawn books, it's almost certainly a previous epoch in the world of Shadowrun. The dragons are the same, and the geography of Barsaive matches up well with the Black Sea and environs. Now that Earthdawn is licensed to Living Room Games and Shadowrun is being put out by Fanpro, I don't know if they'll ever get more explicit than they have been, but the connections are there.
Yeah, I spend way too much time on this kind of thing.
Anyway, back to the actual thread - Shadowrun can be a very fun game. Just be careful you avoid any of the common overused cliches of the setting, like the ubiquitous 'Mister Johnson screws the runners' trope that got so bad that our group actually started kidnapping our Johnsons and taking them on runs with us to make sure they didn't.
The magic system itself is okay in my opinion. But the varieties of casters (shamans vs mages, with all the variations possible in the Magic in the Streets book, for example) and the stuff they can do besides casting spells (astral projection, assensing auras via astral perception) are really nice, and what sets SR apart from d20. If I were running Shadowrun using d20 modern/Urban Arcana, I'd create two new advanced classes, the Shaman and the Mage, and at least a few prestige classes (The Adept, the Toxic Shaman, the Initiate, and maybe a few more) to try and model the complexity and depth of the SR magical model.
Yeah, I spend way too much time on this kind of thing.
Anyway, back to the actual thread - Shadowrun can be a very fun game. Just be careful you avoid any of the common overused cliches of the setting, like the ubiquitous 'Mister Johnson screws the runners' trope that got so bad that our group actually started kidnapping our Johnsons and taking them on runs with us to make sure they didn't.
The magic system itself is okay in my opinion. But the varieties of casters (shamans vs mages, with all the variations possible in the Magic in the Streets book, for example) and the stuff they can do besides casting spells (astral projection, assensing auras via astral perception) are really nice, and what sets SR apart from d20. If I were running Shadowrun using d20 modern/Urban Arcana, I'd create two new advanced classes, the Shaman and the Mage, and at least a few prestige classes (The Adept, the Toxic Shaman, the Initiate, and maybe a few more) to try and model the complexity and depth of the SR magical model.
Tsyr
Explorer
For more information on the SR/ED crossover, if you are interested, this page has a decent rundown of some of the major relevant points:
http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/earthdawn.html
http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/earthdawn.html
Last edited:
Tsyr said:
Yes, well, the problem with the system of Mage (and, as I understand it Ars Magica, though I've never seen it personally), is that it needs a GM with a bright mind and an iron hand - the system is wonderfully flexible, but also woefully abuseable.
The Mage system is simple in concept, but complex in the details of application. Shadowrun has it beat in that sense - it's simple in concept and simple in the details of application as well.
NekoAli
First Post
Well, what more can I add to all of this? I too have been a Shadorun Junkie since first edition, when my regular game to a brief break from 2nd ed D&D to play this new game. The first game we played hooked me completely and totally. For many, many years it was my #1 game system to play or run, and I purchased everything that came out for it. Ran all the adventures, used all the supliments, read all the novels. And all of it was consistantly good to great stuff. I kept with the game through second and third editions, and only really slowed down playing when I moved to a new city where nobody else played.
All in all, I would highly recommend it, for the reasons that all the other people here have pointed out already. The only thing I can really add to the game is that I never had to much trouble with astral projection in my game. I ran it real time along with the other players. It wasn't any different than if my group split up to go in seperate directions, where I would do a few minutes with each group, or go turn by turn if need be. At the worst, there would be a lot of not passing or bluebooking if what one group/person experienced shouldn't be shared out loud with the rest of the group (or just to make the others paraoid about what was happening to the mage).
Decking on the other hand is a bit harder, because it is so rules and dice intensive. You pretty much have to pull the decker aside to do his thing if he's looking for information. Running matrix overwatch on a run (basically following the group electronically to disable security/open doors that sort of thing) was a bit easier, and could be treated like the mage going astral. Generally, when someone wanted to play a decker in my games, I told them I would reduce most decking to a series of rolls when gathering information (much like the other players were doing when they were hitting the streets to do footwork), and keep actual matrix runs to doing overwatch or if we had time to do a one-on-one adventure outside of the regular game.
Otherwise, I say hoi chummer. Welcome to da future. Keep your Roomsweeper loaded and your reflexes jazzed. And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon.
All in all, I would highly recommend it, for the reasons that all the other people here have pointed out already. The only thing I can really add to the game is that I never had to much trouble with astral projection in my game. I ran it real time along with the other players. It wasn't any different than if my group split up to go in seperate directions, where I would do a few minutes with each group, or go turn by turn if need be. At the worst, there would be a lot of not passing or bluebooking if what one group/person experienced shouldn't be shared out loud with the rest of the group (or just to make the others paraoid about what was happening to the mage).
Decking on the other hand is a bit harder, because it is so rules and dice intensive. You pretty much have to pull the decker aside to do his thing if he's looking for information. Running matrix overwatch on a run (basically following the group electronically to disable security/open doors that sort of thing) was a bit easier, and could be treated like the mage going astral. Generally, when someone wanted to play a decker in my games, I told them I would reduce most decking to a series of rolls when gathering information (much like the other players were doing when they were hitting the streets to do footwork), and keep actual matrix runs to doing overwatch or if we had time to do a one-on-one adventure outside of the regular game.
Otherwise, I say hoi chummer. Welcome to da future. Keep your Roomsweeper loaded and your reflexes jazzed. And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon.
Vocenoctum
First Post
Tsyr said:
I've read, but not played Mage. Didn't think much of the system really, but I believe that was because of the setting/ paradox. I was thinking of trying DA Mage to see, but didn't think it worth it, since I'll never play either.
SR IMO is better in execution, Mage only holds the edge because you don't have spells. That's also it's weakness, since it's more work.
Ars Magica likewise was an elegant system (which I read and played, though don't recall the version) that I don't think really worked that well in game. (for me & my group)
Unknown Armies. I played a one shot where I was a chaos mage/ random guy, whatever. I thought it was a bad system. It's basically point based, with unique ways of getting points from what I played. Granted the DM of the game didn't help, but...
Never played/ read/ heard about Witchcraft, so I've no comment there.
I like D&D magic for D&D. I like SR magic for SR and I think Ars Magica's system was perfect for it's setting. Each has their advantages and disadvantages, but fit their games really well.
I don't like Mage or D&D's magic for the fact that they don't (IMO) handle little uses of magic well. I like using magic in everyday life (uh, in game
and D&D's fire & forget and Mage's adjudication method don't fit that for me.
NekoAli
First Post
Well, what more can I add to all of this? I too have been a Shadorun Junkie since first edition, when my regular game to a brief break from 2nd ed D&D to play this new game. The first game we played hooked me completely and totally. For many, many years it was my #1 game system to play or run, and I purchased everything that came out for it. Ran all the adventures, used all the supliments, read all the novels. And all of it was consistantly good to great stuff. I kept with the game through second and third editions, and only really slowed down playing when I moved to a new city where nobody else played.
All in all, I would highly recommend it, for the reasons that all the other people here have pointed out already. The only thing I can really add to the game is that I never had to much trouble with astral projection in my game. I ran it real time along with the other players. It wasn't any different than if my group split up to go in seperate directions, where I would do a few minutes with each group, or go turn by turn if need be. At the worst, there would be a lot of not passing or bluebooking if what one group/person experienced shouldn't be shared out loud with the rest of the group (or just to make the others paraoid about what was happening to the mage).
Decking on the other hand is a bit harder, because it is so rules and dice intensive. You pretty much have to pull the decker aside to do his thing if he's looking for information. Running matrix overwatch on a run (basically following the group electronically to disable security/open doors that sort of thing) was a bit easier, and could be treated like the mage going astral. Generally, when someone wanted to play a decker in my games, I told them I would reduce most decking to a series of rolls when gathering information (much like the other players were doing when they were hitting the streets to do footwork), and keep actual matrix runs to doing overwatch or if we had time to do a one-on-one adventure outside of the regular game.
Otherwise, I say hoi chummer. Welcome to da future. Keep your Roomsweeper loaded and your reflexes jazzed. And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon.
All in all, I would highly recommend it, for the reasons that all the other people here have pointed out already. The only thing I can really add to the game is that I never had to much trouble with astral projection in my game. I ran it real time along with the other players. It wasn't any different than if my group split up to go in seperate directions, where I would do a few minutes with each group, or go turn by turn if need be. At the worst, there would be a lot of not passing or bluebooking if what one group/person experienced shouldn't be shared out loud with the rest of the group (or just to make the others paraoid about what was happening to the mage).
Decking on the other hand is a bit harder, because it is so rules and dice intensive. You pretty much have to pull the decker aside to do his thing if he's looking for information. Running matrix overwatch on a run (basically following the group electronically to disable security/open doors that sort of thing) was a bit easier, and could be treated like the mage going astral. Generally, when someone wanted to play a decker in my games, I told them I would reduce most decking to a series of rolls when gathering information (much like the other players were doing when they were hitting the streets to do footwork), and keep actual matrix runs to doing overwatch or if we had time to do a one-on-one adventure outside of the regular game.
Otherwise, I say hoi chummer. Welcome to da future. Keep your Roomsweeper loaded and your reflexes jazzed. And never, ever cut a deal with a dragon.
Tarrasque Wrangler
First Post
NekoAli:
Non-consecutive double posts. Your kung-fu is strong.
Someone found out about the Rule of One on their decking checks...
Non-consecutive double posts. Your kung-fu is strong.
Someone found out about the Rule of One on their decking checks...
Emiricol
Registered User
randomling said:I've heard some good things about Shadowrun, but honestly know very little about it. From what I've heard it sounds like "high fantasy meets cyberpunk in the near future" - which sounds pretty good to me.
So come sell it to me. Alternatively, tell me why it's rubbish and I shouldn't buy it, depending on what you actually think.
I'm a diehard d20 girl but I'm willing to try other systems and this sounded good.
So should I spend my money?
I never much cared for it, but that's just me. I think a better Shadowrun than Shadowrun would be to just use D20Modern, and maybe ebay for Cyberpunk rulebook, from which I'd steal the hacking rules and a bunch of atmosphere.
