jonathonhawke
Explorer
I was looking at the Weapon Focus Talents; I think that they should not be an action to attune/empower, but rather a ritual (requiring 2,000 nuyen ingredient cost). I think this was how it was done in SR.
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Shadowrun using DnD5 [OOC]
- Thread starter GreenKarl
- Start date
So reading up on them in 5th edition, its an hour x the focus rating and a number of karma points. No mention there about additional cost... I am going to edit them all to say it takes a karma point and one hour ritual. i am hesitant to add additional monetary cost as I am not sure what might be fair...
I edited as followings and also added this to the top of Magic User Magical focus talent tree (but edit adapt for magic user)...
All focus require the adept to spend a Karma point and a one hour ritual bond with the item. Afterwards the focus is bond to the adept and works for you alone. A focus must be "activated" to grant its bonuses. This takes a bonus action but no concentration on the adepts part. If the focus is dropped or the adept is incapacitated or knocked to 0 hit points it deactivates. Active focuses are visible in astral space.
All focus require the adept to spend a Karma point and a one hour ritual bond with the item. Afterwards the focus is bond to the adept and works for you alone. A focus must be "activated" to grant its bonuses. This takes a bonus action but no concentration on the adepts part. If the focus is dropped or the adept is incapacitated or knocked to 0 hit points it deactivates. Active focuses are visible in astral space.
Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
Been thinking about it and here's what I'd suggest:
- I like drug-damage as Strain, I'd expand it to everybody, not just magic-users (effects of drug-abuse on cyberred characters!), but make drug-induced Strain healable with the same methods that one cure drug-addiction?
- Idea: make Mentor Spirit a Feat with "You can take this feet multiple times. Each time you do, choose one(1) benefit from the list". To represent a magic-user's growing link with his Mentor with time.
- Add some Boosts to the Ram spell like Knockback and Area (for vs vehicles and drone). Possibly one that removes diadv vs moving objects?
- Elemental Wall at 4 Mag base seems a bit high... I'd suggest making a lesser version that's 2 or 3 Mag and giving it some boosts if you want to cover that much area (60' X 20' for the base version seems a bit excessive, especially in an urban setting...)
- The Armor spell really needs an upgrade, especially as it's a conc spell (I like where you're going with the improved spell concentration rules, though, this will help alleviate some of this). Maybe add a boost that flips it to something strong against only ranged/ballistic attacks, like the Shield/Protection from arrows spells of old?
- Other possible magic Feats:
- Make a cyber (an alternate version of damage comp?), feat or talent that provides hardness "only vs pain damage" (including overcasting damage)?
Lastly, a question: do you spend your MPs before or after conjuring? i.e. after failing to summon a Mag 4 spirit, do you still need to spend 8 MPs? Or nothing at all? Or a fixed failure amount?
- I like drug-damage as Strain, I'd expand it to everybody, not just magic-users (effects of drug-abuse on cyberred characters!), but make drug-induced Strain healable with the same methods that one cure drug-addiction?
- Idea: make Mentor Spirit a Feat with "You can take this feet multiple times. Each time you do, choose one(1) benefit from the list". To represent a magic-user's growing link with his Mentor with time.
- Add some Boosts to the Ram spell like Knockback and Area (for vs vehicles and drone). Possibly one that removes diadv vs moving objects?
- Elemental Wall at 4 Mag base seems a bit high... I'd suggest making a lesser version that's 2 or 3 Mag and giving it some boosts if you want to cover that much area (60' X 20' for the base version seems a bit excessive, especially in an urban setting...)
- The Armor spell really needs an upgrade, especially as it's a conc spell (I like where you're going with the improved spell concentration rules, though, this will help alleviate some of this). Maybe add a boost that flips it to something strong against only ranged/ballistic attacks, like the Shield/Protection from arrows spells of old?
- Other possible magic Feats:
- Spirit Friend: Spirits like you and are more likely to do what you want. +2 effective Charisma for the purpose of Conjuring spirits, and your negative racial modifier to Cha (if any) does not apply to spirits.
- Double and Triple Cast: Same as Double and Triple attack but with spells.
- Change Improved Critical, Menacing Attack (and Aim maneuver) to include spell attacks?
- Not suggestion adding spells to the Point Blanc feat tree, but no access to Precise Shot for Magic-users?
- Spell Focus: like the Weapon Focus feat, but for a specific spell group. (Got to change the name of this feat too; it's too confusing...).
- Spell penetration: Bonus to spell DC for specific spell group
- Make a cyber (an alternate version of damage comp?), feat or talent that provides hardness "only vs pain damage" (including overcasting damage)?
Lastly, a question: do you spend your MPs before or after conjuring? i.e. after failing to summon a Mag 4 spirit, do you still need to spend 8 MPs? Or nothing at all? Or a fixed failure amount?
So I am going to edit concentration spells as the following...
Under MAGIC USER class after the last line in Spell Casting I am going to add...
"A Magic user can concentrate to maintain a number of Spells equal to its traditions defining attribute modifier. However when doing so the mage suffers an -2 to its Concentration saving throw for every spell past the 1st that it is maintaining at the time. Failure results in all spells that the mage is maintaining to fail."
And added to the end of Summoning Spirits Magic Point cost...
"Failure costs only 1 Magic Point but if the summoner was overcasting it also costs a minimum damage in HP (i.e. a 3rd level magic who attempted and failed to summon a Magnitude 4 fire elemental still loses 1 Magic and 4 HP of damage)."
Then for MAGIC USER TALENTS
Quickening: This talent allows a magic user to maintain one additional concentration spells at the same time. This can be taken a second time, but requires that caster to be of Magic User level 11+ to do so. This allows the magic user to concentrate on two additional spells at one time. Either effect can be combined with a Sustaining Focus (see magical focus). Prerequisite: Magic User 5+, Spell-Casting core talent.
Summon Spirit Ally: adding "This spirit ally does not count as a summoned spirit for the magic user and are not banished if the magic user is incapacitated or knocked to 0 hit points. Also any attempt to banish this spirit are at disadvantage and a banished ally spirit returns to the magic users service at the next sunrise or sunset."
Sustaining Focus: This popular focus allows the magic user to concentrate better. One spell that requires concentration does not count as the magic user concentrating on it and it automatically last for the base concentration duration. The magic user does not need to make a Constitution save for this spell. These ability can be used a number of times that the caster wishes equal to her Tradition’s ability modifier. The caster regains these bonuses after a short or long rest.
Under SPELLS in the Magic section I am editing to...
"Maintaining Spells: In the magical world of ShadPreowrun, all Spells with a duration of longer then instant are concentration. No spell can last longer then the spell caster focusing on it (but see talents).
Under Summoning Spirits in MAGIC I am changing the line "While the spirit is present the magic user is considered to be concentrating and as such cannot cast another concentration spell (but see Magic User talents)." to "Magic Users can only have one summoned spirits in their service at a time. If a magic user summons another spirit the present one is automatically banished back to its native plane (but see talents)."
I am thinking about magical feats also...
Focused Caster: You have good concentration with spells. Add your proficiency bonus twice when making a Constitution saving throw to maintain spells you are concentrating on. This can be combined with Combat Caster.
Precision Spell: You know how to fire spells into melee combat to affect the target that you want. You are not at disadvantage with your Magical attack roll when attacking into melee combat where your allies are present.
Precision Spell, Improved: You know how to protect your friends from your own spells. When casting an Area of Attack on an area you can exude a number of targets to not suffer the affects of the spell equal to your tradition attribute modifier.
Still thinking on others...I am not sure of a Spell Focus yet. Still weighting it against talents.
Finally I am going to change Weapon Focus to Weapon Expertise.
Under MAGIC USER class after the last line in Spell Casting I am going to add...
"A Magic user can concentrate to maintain a number of Spells equal to its traditions defining attribute modifier. However when doing so the mage suffers an -2 to its Concentration saving throw for every spell past the 1st that it is maintaining at the time. Failure results in all spells that the mage is maintaining to fail."
And added to the end of Summoning Spirits Magic Point cost...
"Failure costs only 1 Magic Point but if the summoner was overcasting it also costs a minimum damage in HP (i.e. a 3rd level magic who attempted and failed to summon a Magnitude 4 fire elemental still loses 1 Magic and 4 HP of damage)."
Then for MAGIC USER TALENTS
Quickening: This talent allows a magic user to maintain one additional concentration spells at the same time. This can be taken a second time, but requires that caster to be of Magic User level 11+ to do so. This allows the magic user to concentrate on two additional spells at one time. Either effect can be combined with a Sustaining Focus (see magical focus). Prerequisite: Magic User 5+, Spell-Casting core talent.
Summon Spirit Ally: adding "This spirit ally does not count as a summoned spirit for the magic user and are not banished if the magic user is incapacitated or knocked to 0 hit points. Also any attempt to banish this spirit are at disadvantage and a banished ally spirit returns to the magic users service at the next sunrise or sunset."
Sustaining Focus: This popular focus allows the magic user to concentrate better. One spell that requires concentration does not count as the magic user concentrating on it and it automatically last for the base concentration duration. The magic user does not need to make a Constitution save for this spell. These ability can be used a number of times that the caster wishes equal to her Tradition’s ability modifier. The caster regains these bonuses after a short or long rest.
Under SPELLS in the Magic section I am editing to...
"Maintaining Spells: In the magical world of ShadPreowrun, all Spells with a duration of longer then instant are concentration. No spell can last longer then the spell caster focusing on it (but see talents).
Under Summoning Spirits in MAGIC I am changing the line "While the spirit is present the magic user is considered to be concentrating and as such cannot cast another concentration spell (but see Magic User talents)." to "Magic Users can only have one summoned spirits in their service at a time. If a magic user summons another spirit the present one is automatically banished back to its native plane (but see talents)."
I am thinking about magical feats also...
Focused Caster: You have good concentration with spells. Add your proficiency bonus twice when making a Constitution saving throw to maintain spells you are concentrating on. This can be combined with Combat Caster.
Precision Spell: You know how to fire spells into melee combat to affect the target that you want. You are not at disadvantage with your Magical attack roll when attacking into melee combat where your allies are present.
Precision Spell, Improved: You know how to protect your friends from your own spells. When casting an Area of Attack on an area you can exude a number of targets to not suffer the affects of the spell equal to your tradition attribute modifier.
Still thinking on others...I am not sure of a Spell Focus yet. Still weighting it against talents.
Finally I am going to change Weapon Focus to Weapon Expertise.
Binder Fred
3 rings to bind them all!
Niiice.
I'm not sure if the artificial "one spirit" limit is the right way to go (using up one of your concentration slots to maintain a spirit makes sense to me), but I guess we'll see. Maybe an Initiate Talent that allows you to have more than one spirit at a time if we go with this on the final version?
I'm running into a basic imbalance problem though while looking at casting spells, namely:
Davros' katana does 10.5HP damage on average, +7 tohit and can be used 1000 times in a day.
Fluffy's AK does 11 point of damage on average, has DT, burst and auto-fire options and can be used 30 times before needing a reload (of which it has 6)
Juno's Ares Predator does 14 damage on average, has has DT, laser-sight (and smartlink) options and can be used 100 times before running out.
NTensity's Ligtning Bolt does 10.5HP damage at +4 tohit and can be used 5 times before needing a rest, max 9 times per day without spending Karma or Exhaustion levels...
NTensity's area ligtning bolt, assuming 3 targets on average with Dex in the +1 range on average, does 15,75HP damage (5 points of damage per target!) and can be used 5 times before needing a rest...
("You could always use a gun." "Sure, but I'll be rotten at it.")
I think we need to re-introduce the 5E concept of Cantrips here: average damage or utility spells that Magic-Users can use as their standard, go-to moves every round, with limited-cast, MP-consuming spells reserved for the showy, our-ass-is-on-the-line occasions.
Easy way to do this: grant X "-1 Mag to cast this spell"(or "-1 MP, minimum 0 MP" if you want to go that way). Allow them to stack if people want to. Grant more as they go up in level.
I'm not sure if the artificial "one spirit" limit is the right way to go (using up one of your concentration slots to maintain a spirit makes sense to me), but I guess we'll see. Maybe an Initiate Talent that allows you to have more than one spirit at a time if we go with this on the final version?
I'm running into a basic imbalance problem though while looking at casting spells, namely:
Davros' katana does 10.5HP damage on average, +7 tohit and can be used 1000 times in a day.
Fluffy's AK does 11 point of damage on average, has DT, burst and auto-fire options and can be used 30 times before needing a reload (of which it has 6)
Juno's Ares Predator does 14 damage on average, has has DT, laser-sight (and smartlink) options and can be used 100 times before running out.
NTensity's Ligtning Bolt does 10.5HP damage at +4 tohit and can be used 5 times before needing a rest, max 9 times per day without spending Karma or Exhaustion levels...
NTensity's area ligtning bolt, assuming 3 targets on average with Dex in the +1 range on average, does 15,75HP damage (5 points of damage per target!) and can be used 5 times before needing a rest...
("You could always use a gun." "Sure, but I'll be rotten at it.")
I think we need to re-introduce the 5E concept of Cantrips here: average damage or utility spells that Magic-Users can use as their standard, go-to moves every round, with limited-cast, MP-consuming spells reserved for the showy, our-ass-is-on-the-line occasions.
Easy way to do this: grant X "-1 Mag to cast this spell"
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OK let me think about it a bit... I see somewhat what you are saying about damage BUT this might be partly due to the fact that you are all only 3rd level. Maybe some of the attack spells should have a higher base and then add +1d per Magnitude. For example, say for [Elemental] Bolt it would be written instead Magnitude: 1 for base 2d6, +1d6 per additional magnitude.
I don't want to go too much more. There are talents that let you get +2 magnitude for free and that you can over-cast with. That starts really pushing damage.
Also remember that you do get back a d4 x mage level in magic points with a short rest. Now you can't take short rests in the middle of combat BUT you should be able to get back a few in-between them, depending on the situation (and I plan on allowing at least one or two short rests a day for most adventures).
I don't want to go too much more. There are talents that let you get +2 magnitude for free and that you can over-cast with. That starts really pushing damage.
Also remember that you do get back a d4 x mage level in magic points with a short rest. Now you can't take short rests in the middle of combat BUT you should be able to get back a few in-between them, depending on the situation (and I plan on allowing at least one or two short rests a day for most adventures).
OK look over the Combat Spells section and tell what you think of the changes. Again I am not sure Cantrips work in Shadowrun. Maybe because you can take no Stun when casting low end spells BUT there is always a chance that it could cost you on any casting.
I also added another Feat - Psychometry, Prerequisite: Astral Perception or Projection. The awakened being is able to hold an item in its hands or touch a surface or small spot and perceive any residual auras of a past. At the end of a one minute ritual, where the awakened being can take more other actions, make a Arcana skill check. With a DC 10 you get a few vague flashes of strong emotions of the object or vicinity within the last 48 hours. With a DC 15 you get more information or you can see back one week, but only the strongest emotions and only vague pictures. With a DC 20 you get more detailed information (see a person’s face, know their name, their emotional state, etc.) or can perceive farther back but again only in very vague terms. Higher DC grants you more information determined by the GM (and possible future flashes as well). If you have any bonuses to skills when in Astral Space (such as the Astral Tracker or Mentor Spirit bonuses) you can apply them here also.
I am working on a few others but I need to figure out how they will work. Spirit Friend should give you bonuses with spirits but not sure where and what yet. Also thinking about Spirit Foe that will help with fighting spirits.
I think only Devos's character has Weapon Focus which I changed to Weapon Expertise just to reduce confusion with the magical focus.
I also added another Feat - Psychometry, Prerequisite: Astral Perception or Projection. The awakened being is able to hold an item in its hands or touch a surface or small spot and perceive any residual auras of a past. At the end of a one minute ritual, where the awakened being can take more other actions, make a Arcana skill check. With a DC 10 you get a few vague flashes of strong emotions of the object or vicinity within the last 48 hours. With a DC 15 you get more information or you can see back one week, but only the strongest emotions and only vague pictures. With a DC 20 you get more detailed information (see a person’s face, know their name, their emotional state, etc.) or can perceive farther back but again only in very vague terms. Higher DC grants you more information determined by the GM (and possible future flashes as well). If you have any bonuses to skills when in Astral Space (such as the Astral Tracker or Mentor Spirit bonuses) you can apply them here also.
I am working on a few others but I need to figure out how they will work. Spirit Friend should give you bonuses with spirits but not sure where and what yet. Also thinking about Spirit Foe that will help with fighting spirits.
I think only Devos's character has Weapon Focus which I changed to Weapon Expertise just to reduce confusion with the magical focus.
