Shapechange is HOW Epic?

[JLXC]

All right. The power level of D&D goes into the Stratosphere now, even if you hate the Epic Rules. So... what is the limit of shapechange now?

Could someone become an Ancient Force Dragon? A Mithral Golem? WHAT?!?!?!

If they can... then a 17th level Mage can be as powerful as a CR 45 or higher creature. ummm.... huh?

 

[Darkness]

Not that shapechanging into the tarrasque wasn't powerful, but...

 

[JLXC]

What you can turn into out of the Epic Book if the spell remains as is will destroy any high level game.

Look at the stats on a Sirrush! Or a Black Slaad. OR a Mithral Golem. Great Googly Moogly!

Devastation Beetle:

AC 72, SR 60, Str 42 Dex 31 Con 46, Plus Trample and Acid Cloud.

This could destroy entire countries. Maybe I am missing something? If they had DR THEN they would be unbeatable, but still SR 40+ is easy now for a 17th level Character. So is Unbeatable AC and stats that are better than many Gods. WOW.


Edit: Shapechange can mimic the Big T... my bad.

 

[Mr Fidgit]

just a slight correction, JLXC.

with shapechange you don't get supernatural or spell-like abilities. DR is a supernatural ability. (but SR is extraordinary)

i'm not sure about the beetle's acid cloud...

but you're right either way, with shapechange you get (10 min/lvl) worth of mass destruction

 

[Darkness]

Hmm... It might be best not to allow casters to change into something that they don't know.

 

[Crothian]

Hmm... It might be best not to allow casters to change into something that they don't know.

Always a wise thing.

 

[Jeremy]

Hmmmm... What is the CR of some of these creatures?

The way we handle polymorph (and by extension shapechange eventually) is you can only polymorph into critters you know.

We handle this through knowledge skills like arcana, nature, religion, history, etc. DC 5+CR to know the name of a critter and if it's a threat to something. DC 10+CR to know a little of it's behavior, it's place in ecology, etc. DC 15+CR to know every little detail of the average example of that critter.

Generally if you want to Polymorph into something for the first time it's a knowledge check of 15+CR (or having encountered or studied the creature). Particularly common or populous creatures have their DC adjusted appropriately, as do unheard of creatures that are unique or close to it.

So if these things are CR 45, that'd be a knowledge check of 60, meaning a minimum skill rank of probably 40 or so. Kewl. Problem solved for us.

Edit: Arcana for dragons, constructs, and aberrations; The Planes for outsiders and elementals; Nature for animals, vermin, beasts, and magical beasts; Religion or Undead for undead; History or Local for humanoids, giants, and monstrous humanoids; and exceptions made on the spot for things like templates, shapechangers, oozes, etc... In case anyone asks.

 

[mkletch]

It would probably make sense to have a blanket rule similar to Gate where there is a limit of double your hit dice. If you go past that, the duration is reduced proportionately (Gate does not have a hard ceiling, so shapechange shouldn't either).

Oh well, I guess I can't shapechange into a hecatoncheires or an umbral blot...

-Fletch!

 

[Kraedin]

Turning into creatures is weak compared to turning into huge blocks of gold and falling on things.

Gold weighs 1204 pounds per cubic foot, and shapechange allows you to turn into any object of less that 200' in any dimension. You turn into a 200' cube of gold, which weighs 200^3 * 1204 pounds, or 9,632,000,000 pounds. Falling objects do 1d6 damage per 200 pounds, so that's 48,160,000d6 damage. Ouch!

 

[JLXC]

Now that is funny...

"DM I turn into a 200' diameter Black Hole!"

WHAT!!!!!

lol