D&D 5E Shapeshifting dragons - only metallic?

[CapnZapp]

I noticed only the good guys of 5E Monster Manual dragons got Change Shape.

Is there a story behind this? A reason I'm not aware of? Any Realmslore mumblecore tidbits?

I'm asking because I was inspired by the way the old 3E playtest adventure Into the Dragon's Lair features (15 year old spoiler alert) a blue dragon in human form. Not brass, not silver; blue. When I doublechecked the stat block; yep, she's using a Wand of Polymorph alright.

Now, changing shape using an item (the adventurers can loot) is not the 5E way. But lets go there anyway - there is, after all, such a wand in 5E. Alas, polymorphing for a measly hour at a time is incredibly lame, not to mention how it sucks up your concentration.

(This latter bit isn't just the inner minmaxer in me complaining. Having a shapeshifter always risk reverting to its true form every. Single. Time. it takes any damage is, at the risk of repeating myself, incredibly lame)

So, I'm gonna go ahead and ask. Never mind if I make a fool out of myself, realmswise.

Would there be a good reason why I shouldn't just slap a Change Shape ability on my chromatic dragon?

If there is, how would you convert a 3E style shapechanged NPC into something 5E but also not lame?

 

[Valetudo]

I don't know why bit for some reason they like to give the metallic extra . Which I find weird considering most of the time encounters with them are mostly noncombat, unless you really up or are evillish.

 

[Valetudo]

In my campaigns all dragons of a certain age can shape change and like to hump like rabbits. That's how dragon born came about. Two true dragons shape change and breed.

 

[Ath-kethin]

I noticed only the good guys of 5E Monster Manual dragons got Change Shape.

Is there a story behind this? A reason I'm not aware of? Any Realmslore mumblecore tidbits?

Would there be a good reason why I shouldn't just slap a Change Shape ability on my chromatic dragon?

In ever edition I've played (meaning AD&D 2nd Edition, 3rd, and 5th, it has always been metallics-only for changing shape as a racial ability. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Realms (though not being a Forgotten Realms fan, I concede that there may be a reason presented in a sourcebook somewhere with which I am unfamiliar).

Even in the Council of Wyrms expansion (which was based on the idea of PC dragons, and introduced the half-dragon), the half-dragon options are half-gold, half-silver, and half-bronze. No other dragons could change shape, so no other dragons could breed with humans or elves.

Will it hurt/affect anything if you decide that a metallic dragon (or even all metallic dragons) have this ability as well? Nope.

Edit: 1e Monster Manual also has only Bronze, Silver and Gold dragons as shapechangers.

 

[Illithidbix]

Gold, Silver and Bronze have traditionally it as a innate racial ability.

The 4E Draconomicom series (which was fantastic) presented it an option for chromatic dragons.

There is precedent for Chromatic dragons to have the ability.
In 1E Dragonlance the Red Dragon Ember transforms into humanoid form. In the novels (Dragons of Autumn Twilight) at least, I think this was based off an adventure module.
In far later novels a Green Dragon disguises itself amongst the elves.

It's more debatable whether they have mastered a racial technique or just using their innate magic casting to cast a spell.

I sadly can't think of a example from FR of the top of my head, but I personally think it's well within what a dragon could do.

It might be most chromatics don't bother learning it because they don't care about turning into a lesser being.

 

[steeldragons]

In the case of Ember, if I'm recalling correctly, it was in the module on which Autumn Twilight was based/part of and he had a ring that allowed him to polymorph into human form...or maybe just that he was ancient enough to be a spellcaster and had polymorph self as a spell (it was some time ago). But there was definitely an item or spell, not just "he's old enough to/dragons in Krynn can do that."

As others have noted, from 1e on only the "upper" metallics could. It's just always been a D&D thing. Bronze could transform into animals only. Silver could transform into humans or elves, only. Golds could transform into whatever they wanted. Over the years/editions, their respective shapechanging abilities have just all become any humanoid or animal.

As for the "why"? I would think it probably just has to do with the idea that, "In the beginning...[of D&D]" the number of evil dragons around (or at least encountered) were going to far outweigh the number of good ones. Extrapolating this means that they are a) more numerous than metallics, b) more obvious/visible than metallics, c) more likely to "interfere" with adventurers and/or civilization than are metallics, or d) all of the above: giving them a little "extra" power above what chromatics could do made sense to maintain that ephemeral D&D "balance."

Probably all stemming from the fact that the original game had only Gold as "good" dragons and golds were designed/based off Asian style dragons (who are well-known in eastern myth as highly magical and shapeshifters). They could shapechange. So when more "metal/good" dragons were added to the lexicon, that ability was written in.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I don't know why bit for some reason they like to give the metallic extra . Which I find weird considering most of the time encounters with them are mostly noncombat, unless you really up or are evillish.

That's exactly why they can change shape: so you can have noncombat encounters with them in more contexts.

 

[Sunseeker]

I think it's silly. Dragons are severely underpowered in this edition already and the "special abilities" of the Metallics seem like great all-around dragon abilities. I don't see why a dragon of any color may not shape-shift to work their agenda. It really feels like they built the chromatics to be nothing more than big punching bags, while the metallics, knowing you're not going to be fighting them often, they had to come up with some weird additional reasons why you'd even run into them.

 

[devincutler]

I find this to be discriminating against dragons of colour. We must stand together to stop this injustice! All dragons, regardless of colour or creed, deserve equal access to changing shape.

No polymorph....no peace!

 

[hawkeyefan]

I'm currently running Princes of the Apocalypse, and if I recall correctly, there's a "Lady of Shadows" or "Dark Lady" NPC. She appears as a femal drow, but is in fact either a black dragon or maybe a shadow dragon.

I'm away from my books so I don't recall all the details, but I don't think there was any polymorph item involved. Perhaps someone who has the book handy can confirm?

 

[Xaspian]

I'm currently running Princes of the Apocalypse, and if I recall correctly, there's a "Lady of Shadows" or "Dark Lady" NPC. She appears as a femal drow, but is in fact either a black dragon or maybe a shadow dragon.

I'm away from my books so I don't recall all the details, but I don't think there was any polymorph item involved. Perhaps someone who has the book handy can confirm?

She is a Black Shadow Dragon, and uses Major Image to project the form of a drow when interacting with the PCs.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The annoying thing about shapechanging in 5e is that if you don't have a special ability, you need a 9th-level spell just to take on a humanoid form. 4th-level: polymorph into a beast. 9th-level: polymorph into pretty much anything. Nothing in between. It's something that really irritates me. There needs to be some spell in the middle that opens up the options a bit, for dragons and everyone else.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thank you. The way you discuss the matter is just the way I had hoped!

On one hand, of course I can "do whatever I want, I'm the DM". But I don't want to do so without first finding out more about the "behind the scenes" reasoning of the D&D creators.

On the other hand, I will absolutely do it, if the alternative is a magic ring (or somesuch). First off, such an item would be incredibly powerful in the hands of the player characters, and I have enough experience to know better than to equip a NPC with something that "can't" fall into the grubby hands of the heroes...

But more importantly, I absolutely detest the grand tradition of old D&D editions to hand out "frak you" items. Hats of non-detection is perhaps the most egregious example (why first give PCs "detect evil" and then make the BBEG immune to that ability?)

Now, I know I'm kicking in open doors here. 5E has most wisely done away with such crap. But that is precisely why I will definitely not use the option to give my NPC a wand of polymorph or somesuch.

(That the item is either too weak and restricted to work for story purposes; such as the one hour and concentration limits on the DMG wand, or that it is too strong to ever fall into the PCs hands is only a secondary consideration.)

---

So where do we stand?

It does seem each and every "case" discussed use a work-around. Previous editions simply gave powerful items. The current edition tries a little harder, using illusions and what not.

It starts to look like my options are limited. Perhaps the best solution is to invent a story reason for "my" blue dragon to be special?

I guess I could say she's a brass dragon with a "special" kind of very selfish kind of chaotic good alignment. But since the level range dictates a young dragon that isn't too helpful - even the dragons that DO get "Change Shape" only gets it at more mature stages (well into the double digits Challenge Ratings).

A curse perhaps? Nah - an inquisitive and intellectual dragon would see that more as a boon than a bane.

A mixed parentage then? Have there ever been "neutral" dragons? Have there ever been "unheard of" offspring between a metallic and a chromatic?

Feel free to continue bringing up previous edition examples. (We all agree this edition will provide more options as time goes by, so I am fully intent on not limiting myself to only what's in the MM)

 

[CapnZapp]

The annoying thing about shapechanging in 5e is that if you don't have a special ability, you need a 9th-level spell just to take on a humanoid form. 4th-level: polymorph into a beast. 9th-level: polymorph into pretty much anything. Nothing in between. It's something that really irritates me. There needs to be some spell in the middle that opens up the options a bit, for dragons and everyone else.

Well, perhaps, but remember, spells are designed with player characters in mind (and rightly so*).

First off: thank you for reminding me Polymorph isn't good enough to turn into a humanoid in this edition.

Then: there are bigger beefs to burn (does anyone say that?) than providing you with "story capabilities" like the one we're discussing here.

*) NPCs can always gain special abilities. Not requiring NPCs to play by the PC's rules is perhaps the most fundamental improvement of 5E compared to (mainly) 3E, in my opinion.

The Polymorph/Shapechange spells must first and foremost fix all the playability and balances issues of old editions. We all know what this entails, with the various fixes and limitations that got quite out of hand.

Restricting Polymorph to beasts beautifully fixes most of the issues, since it stops you from overshadowing the druid, stops turning the Monsters Manual into the Sears Catalog Of Overpowered Forms, and still allows "baleful" polymorph attacks.

Restricting Shapechange... is simply not needed when it's a level 9 spell. We all know all rules go out the window once you reach level 17!

What you ask for is simply something I fully understand and accept is not part of the "basic" rules. Any "in between" spell at perhaps spell level 6 or 7 will simply have to be so complex, for relatively little gain, that not having it in the PHB is justified in my opinion...

Zapp

PS. Besides, anything requiring Concentration is a no-good solution for my purposes (if a shapechanger couldn't blend in and join the allies in combat without running a significant risk of losing its assumed form each time it takes even a single point of damage, it simply cannot do so)

The one hour duration is a less critical limitation, assuming the NPC gets unlimited castings of the effect. Obviously getting a single level nine slot for Shapechange is not nearly enough for this purpose; what I need is (if we limit ourselves to 5E mechanics currently existing today) nothing short of the Change Shape ability currently given to only a small selection of very do-goody (and therefore uninteresting) critters.

 

[Ath-kethin]

Thank you. The way you discuss the matter is just the way I had hoped!

On one hand, of course I can "do whatever I want, I'm the DM". But I don't want to do so without first finding out more about the "behind the scenes" reasoning of the D&D creators.

On the other hand, I will absolutely do it, if the alternative is a magic ring (or somesuch). First off, such an item would be incredibly powerful in the hands of the player characters, and I have enough experience to know better than to equip a NPC with something that "can't" fall into the grubby hands of the heroes...

But more importantly, I absolutely detest the grand tradition of old D&D editions to hand out "frak you" items. Hats of non-detection is perhaps the most egregious example (why first give PCs "detect evil" and then make the BBEG immune to that ability?)

Now, I know I'm kicking in open doors here. 5E has most wisely done away with such crap. But that is precisely why I will definitely not use the option to give my NPC a wand of polymorph or somesuch.

(That the item is either too weak and restricted to work for story purposes; such as the one hour and concentration limits on the DMG wand, or that it is too strong to ever fall into the PCs hands is only a secondary consideration.)

---

So where do we stand?

It does seem each and every "case" discussed use a work-around. Previous editions simply gave powerful items. The current edition tries a little harder, using illusions and what not.

It starts to look like my options are limited. Perhaps the best solution is to invent a story reason for "my" blue dragon to be special?

I guess I could say she's a brass dragon with a "special" kind of very selfish kind of chaotic good alignment. But since the level range dictates a young dragon that isn't too helpful - even the dragons that DO get "Change Shape" only gets it at more mature stages (well into the double digits Challenge Ratings).

A curse perhaps? Nah - an inquisitive and intellectual dragon would see that more as a boon than a bane.

A mixed parentage then? Have there ever been "neutral" dragons? Have there ever been "unheard of" offspring between a metallic and a chromatic?

Feel free to continue bringing up previous edition examples. (We all agree this edition will provide more options as time goes by, so I am fully intent on not limiting myself to only what's in the MM)

I really don't understand why you feel granting all dragons (maybe restrict by age category?), or maybe just arbitrarily some dragons, the ability to shape change is such a problem. It seems to me no different from the sidebar in the MM about dragon spellcasters; you can just decide that some have can do it and there you go. No crossbreeding, no contrived Rube Goldberg justifications, it just is. Done.

 

[CapnZapp]

I really don't understand why you feel granting all dragons (maybe restrict by age category?), or maybe just arbitrarily some dragons, the ability to shape change is such a problem. It seems to me no different from the sidebar in the MM about dragon spellcasters; you can just decide that some have can do it and there you go. No crossbreeding, no contrived Rube Goldberg justifications, it just is. Done.

I guess twas inevitable this question would pop sooner or later...

Well, if I ask you to try?

I really don't have any other answer than it would feel better if I can work WITH the rules rather than AROUND them. Either you can accept and understand such a desire or you can't, I guess. Think of it like different tastes.

(Actually I do have another answer. Not sure I like it myself though. At least one of my players is an old DM himself, and pretty much a walking D&D encyclopedia. If I can avoid him asking "but I thought chromatic dragons couldn't shapeshift?" so much the better.

I did say I didn't like this answer and I don't. This player is enough of a DM himself to accept if I told him "because the story says so". And besides, I am perfectly aware I don't need to carry decades of old D&D lore on my back when I DM, and that in fact 5E encourages me not to)

 

[Mecheon]

In terms of the Chromatics, I've always held it that Blues at the least should be able to shapeshift. Maybe greens as well if you want something else, but its always seemed a bit... Eh for the others. Reds are too busy being egotists destroying everything, blacks are too busy being sullen and living in swamps, and whites, well, whites have a big list of issues they have just living day to day. Shapeshifting is the last thing they need to worry about.

Blue dragons are the sorcerers all the same, so I'd almost say one of them obtained something that enabled it. A piece of forgotten magic, which wouldn't be too hard given blues are all about the desert. Deserts full of ancient ruins from the dawn of time, or at least the dawn of dragons, and why those Metallics always had the ability they most likely did not fairly earn...

Outside of the normal Metallics, I did love the fact that Mercury dragons could shapeshift into mercury circa 4E

 

[CapnZapp]

Blue dragons are the sorcerers all the same, so I'd almost say one of them obtained something that enabled it. A piece of forgotten magic, which wouldn't be too hard given blues are all about the desert. Deserts full of ancient ruins from the dawn of time, or at least the dawn of dragons, and why those Metallics always had the ability they most likely did not fairly earn...

I would love if you (or anyone else) could find such a piece of forgotten D&D trivia, perhaps from the ancient ruins from the dawn of time that is Dungeon Magazine or AD&D supplements

It would probably surprise me more if quality control is such that every author for every edition has adhered to the "free shapeshifting only for good guys" dogma...

 

[Mecheon]

I would love if you (or anyone else) could find such a piece of forgotten D&D trivia, perhaps from the ancient ruins from the dawn of time that is Dungeon Magazine or AD&D supplements

It would probably surprise me more if quality control is such that every author for every edition has adhered to the "free shapeshifting only for good guys" dogma...

Man, you're talking to me. I just make this stuff up and proclaim its canon, using some shaky examples from Elder Scrolls lore to justify anything. C0da makes it canon, after all.

My gut tells me if we want to go canon, the easiest way's actually just 4E's Draconomicon: It does just state that some crossbreeds between types of dragons can look identical to one parent, but have the abilities of the other. But that's a bit on the eh side in my opinion, along with requiring a blue to shack up with a gold, silver, steel or mercury dragon

Going the not-so-canon approach, I'd instead pick up on the lack of consistency around where dragons actually came from and they've found some artifact from back when Tiamat and Bahamut walked the world. The bones or blood of Io itself may even be the type of thing that could be used

 

[Al2O3]

If I recall correctly there is a half-dragon template in the MM to use for when a shapeshifted dragon mates with a non-dragon. I think it includes chromatic dragons. Also, the green dragon entry (or something on those pages) implies at least one of them having such an ability. Probably the one already mentioned in this thread.