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D&D 5E Sharpshooter/Great Weapon Master and Why They Are Broken 101.

Dausuul

Legend
Almost every encounter(6/8) there had saving throws involved with critters with special attacks. Saves are one of the things where 5E kind of struggles with due to saves not scaling its a weak point of every party in 5E for the most part.

You are also taking full advantage of stupid rules with low CR critters as 5E stuff has lots of hit points. 3.5 also had a similar rule.

You may not be using spellcasters but every encounter has some sort of AoE in it and a pair of flames skulls which I referenced as being an abuse earlier. Getting hit with multiple fireballs can suck in 5E and 2 flameskulls can drop 32d6 damage. The flameskull in LMoP is a pain and I have used a pair of them to almost TPK a party when combined with other monsters.

8 encounters involving AoEs can grind down/tpk anything in 5E.

A spellcasting Dragon a spellcasting Illithid, 7 critters with paralyzing attacks+ demons, 16 Orcs ignoring the encounter multipliers for low CR critters. I'm trying to work out why a few of those critters would even associate with each other. Orcs having a pet Wyvern maybe.
That's a perfectly good set of encounters; excellent in fact. Nice variety, each one on a theme, very much like what I'd expect to run into in a real game at that level. You might have a point on the CR multipliers, but for the rest, you ain't got a leg to stand on. 9th-level PCs should expect to face a fair number of critters with special abilities.

If you can take 'em, you can take 'em, and if you can't, you can't, but there's nothing wrong with the monsters.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Of course it can lead to that. But what is a hero without danger?


Don't get me wrong I will happily kill off pcs I am careful with save or dies/suck or to many fireballs or whatever.

If PCS are stupid that's one thing then I do not mind killing them. 4 flames skulls RAW is a fine encounter but could go horribly wrong. One party might be resistant to fire another party is a tpk.
 
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Almost every encounter(6/8) there had saving throws involved with critters with special attacks. Saves are one of the things where 5E kind of struggles with due to saves not scaling its a weak point of every party in 5E for the most part.

Mate, youre a party of 5 x 9th level PCs. Most encounters at this level will feature stuff hurling out saving throws of some kind.

Perhaps if you took resilient instead of GWM...

You are also taking full advantage of stupid rules with low CR critters as 5E stuff has lots of hit points. 3.5 also had a similar rule.

Im not taking 'advantage' of anything mate. I couldnt have used a broader range of encounters if I tried. In one adventuring day you deal with undead, humanoids, giants, fiends, a dragon, aberrations and constructs. There is a solo encounter, a mob encounter, and a few featuring low CR Mooks.

You may not be using spellcasters but every encounter has some sort of AoE in it and a pair of flames skulls which I referenced as being an abuse earlier. Getting hit with multiple fireballs can suck in 5E and 2 flameskulls can drop 32d6 damage. The flameskull in LMoP is a pain and I have used a pair of them to almost TPK a party when combined with other monsters.

The Orcs dont have any AOE's (and are vulnerable to them) neither do the hook horrors. The dragon and the illithid have only line attacks (L bolt and breath weapon). The giant encounter has the one AOE (a winter wolfs breath weapon).

Only the flameskulls have fireball (5th level, 1 each) and the Mezzoloths have cloudkill (1 each).

In a party with 20 healing potions, 2 paladins, 2 clerics, the healer feat, and 40 HD of healing from short rests, I think you'll be fine.

A spellcasting Dragon a spellcasting Illithid, 7 critters with paralyzing attacks+ demons, 16 Orcs ignoring the encounter multipliers for low CR critters. I'm trying to work out why a few of those critters would even associate with each other. Orcs having a pet Wyvern maybe.

You dont have to work it out mate. Im the DM. I know the reasons they're there already.

If you're curious the Orc chief rides the Wyvern and the Orcs are the guardians of the tower (hired goons). The dragon and the illithid parties are the emissaries you need to slay. The encounters with the [Mezzoloths and undead] and the [Flamekulls and Horrors] are trap rooms [for fluff, the flameskulls are the flaming skull heads of the Helmed horrors that fly off to attack the party]. The Giant is the captain of the guard (with a grudge against the dragon) and the Hooked horrors are thralls of the Illithids brought up for extra muscle should things go south.

Not sure why a 9th level party with 2 clerics and 2 paladins are worried about half a dozen ghouls by the way...

Your biggest issue is getting through encounters 1-6 with enough juice in the tank to fight that Dragon (particularly after fighting the Illithid caster and his thralls). Thats the cheallenge here - a dramatic race against the clock to take down two nasty little encounters.

Every expenditure of a resource (spell slot, action surge, smite etc) is a meaningful choice and not an automatic go-to.

I have used a few tricks like that myself just not generally all at once. I can't think of to many 5E adventures with encounters like that either.

Dude, there are no tricks here. I literally used a mix of encounters of different types and sizes and compositions, relying on the 6-8 [medium to hard] encounter/ 2 short rest paradigm.

Its fair to say that your party would be challenged in this adventure, and GWM and SS wouldnt dominate yeah?
 
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You might have a point on the CR multipliers

Youve kinda gotta play it be ear, and eyeball an encounter (and know your PCs) when deciding what threat level a monster has to be to factor into multiplying the XP for its presence.

I found that adding a single CR 2 here or there to an encounter would throw it into deadly territory (turning 8000 adjusted XP into 12,000). It inflated the encounter XP out of proportion to the overall increase in difficulty for that CR 2 critter.

The DMG tells me not to factor weaker critters in when determining what factor to multiply the overall difficulty by.

Drawing the line around the CR 2 mark (for 9th level PCs) just kind of... felt right when I looked over the encounters, and the numbers seemed to line up better at that mark.

To compensate, I didnt use too many CR 2's (barring the Orcs with 2 x Orogs and 2 x Eyes). Looking over that encounter (the Orc encounter) the XP awarded and challenge for 5 x 9th level PCs feels about right. Id probably bunch them into three groups (Boss on Wyvern, and 2 x groups of Orcs with an Orog commander and Eye caster support).

The fact its the first encounter of the day and the PCs hit it at strength also helps.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Youve kinda gotta play it be ear, and eyeball an encounter (and know your PCs) when deciding what threat level a monster has to be to factor into multiplying the XP for its presence.

I found that adding a single CR 2 here or there to an encounter would throw it into deadly territory (turning 8000 adjusted XP into 12,000). It inflated the encounter XP out of proportion to the overall increase in difficulty for that CR 2 critter.

The DMG tells me not to factor weaker critters in when determining what factor to multiply the overall difficulty by.

Drawing the line around the CR 2 mark (for 9th level PCs) just kind of... felt right when I looked over the encounters, and the numbers seemed to line up better at that mark.

To compensate, I didnt use too many CR 2's (barring the Orcs with 2 x Orogs and 2 x Eyes). Looking over that encounter (the Orc encounter) the XP awarded and challenge for 5 x 9th level PCs feels about right. Id probably bunch them into three groups (Boss on Wyvern, and 2 x groups of Orcs with an Orog commander and Eye caster support).

The fact its the first encounter of the day and the PCs hit it at strength also helps.


They normally do take resilient just not in intelligence because there are sod all intelligence saves in the game. I put war caster feat in thete that is often resilient con for the spellcasters as we normally pick one or the other.
 

Tormyr

Hero
Youve kinda gotta play it be ear, and eyeball an encounter (and know your PCs) when deciding what threat level a monster has to be to factor into multiplying the XP for its presence.

I found that adding a single CR 2 here or there to an encounter would throw it into deadly territory (turning 8000 adjusted XP into 12,000). It inflated the encounter XP out of proportion to the overall increase in difficulty for that CR 2 critter.

The DMG tells me not to factor weaker critters in when determining what factor to multiply the overall difficulty by.

Drawing the line around the CR 2 mark (for 9th level PCs) just kind of... felt right when I looked over the encounters, and the numbers seemed to line up better at that mark.

To compensate, I didnt use too many CR 2's (barring the Orcs with 2 x Orogs and 2 x Eyes). Looking over that encounter (the Orc encounter) the XP awarded and challenge for 5 x 9th level PCs feels about right. Id probably bunch them into three groups (Boss on Wyvern, and 2 x groups of Orcs with an Orog commander and Eye caster support).

The fact its the first encounter of the day and the PCs hit it at strength also helps.
You might like to take a look at my encounter building spreadsheet. It smooths out the crazy jumps you get in the encounter multipliers where you can add a creature or two and have no change in the multiplier and add one more creature and the multiplier suddenly jumps.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1186
 

You might like to take a look at my encounter building spreadsheet. It smooths out the crazy jumps you get in the encounter multipliers where you can add a creature or two and have no change in the multiplier and add one more creature and the multiplier suddenly jumps.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1186

Nice work man!

The core system is more of an art than an exact science, but ive gotten to the point now where Im familiar enough now ith it I can make it work for me!
 

Arial Black

Adventurer
The core system is more of an art than an exact science, but ive gotten to the point now where Im familiar enough now ith it I can make it work for me!

Great work man; I am totally stealing this! :D

What order are the encounters to be...er...encountered?

What is the terrain for each encounter? Rooms in a tower?

Where do the short rests go?

How would you adjust this adventure for five 11th level PCs?

The PCs are all human except the Bladesinger:-

* eladrin bladesinger wizard 11
* paladin 2/tempest cleric 9
* assassin rogue 3/shadow monk 6/GOO warlock 2
* berserker barbarian 3/fiendish bladelock 8
* swashbuckler rogue 7/dragon sorcerer 1/battlemaster fighter 3
 

AaronOfBarbaria

Adventurer
They normally do take resilient just not in intelligence because there are sod all intelligence saves in the game.
That's why it is more important to know what the DM is actually having come up in the campaign than it is to know whats in the books - because there only being a few cases of Intelligence saves in the book has no bearing at all on how often they will come up in the campaign.
 

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