Shield Charge equivalent?

[Rel]

However, a more interesting question is:
Would a charging spring attack protect you from the AoO from Hold the Line?

Now you've done it...

Off hand (without either feat in front of me), I'd say it would not protect you. I say this because Charging is primarily a form of attack and not primarily a form of movement.

And from a balance standpoint, Spring Attack has lots and lots of uses. Hold the Line has just the one. I'm more inclined to give the nod to the "weaker" of the two feats.

 

[kreynolds]

Yes, you can.

Technically, you can't. Sure, the mechanics of Charge allow it if you twist it enough. But does the feat itself allow it? No. It's obvious the intent of the feat is quite simple: Standard Move + Standard Attack = No AoO.

It isn't: Standard Move + Standard Attack + Whatever The Heck Else You Can Manage To Squeeze In = No AoO.

 

[Ramien Meltides]

Ki Ryn,

I had no idea my tactic was so unpopular!

It could be worse... I was planning to pick up Divine Shield as my next feat.

 

[smetzger]

Technically, you can't. Sure, the mechanics of Charge allow it if you twist it enough. But does the feat itself allow it? No. It's obvious the intent of the feat is quite simple: Standard Move + Standard Attack = No AoO.

It isn't: Standard Move + Standard Attack + Whatever The Heck Else You Can Manage To Squeeze In = No AoO.

Spring Attack says nothing about restricting to a standard move. It just says move.
Spring Attack also says "Attack Action" not standard attack. Charge is listed as an Attack Action on table 8-1.
Therefore I have concluded that charging spring attack is by the rules.

 

[IceBear]

But a charge requires all the movement in the round to be in a straight line, so you would have to keep moving forward after the attack. Probably deep within enemy lines.

IceBear

 

[0-hr]

Gah, just when this dumb thread was finally about to fall off of page one! The tactic is not unpopular when used by the first character to employ it. It's the second, third, and fourth characters that get tedious (just ask all those invisible flying mages out there). That's what I was looking to avoid if there were not game mechanics to balance things out.

But while you're here, Ramien, maybe you can give your opinion of what you were doing vs. what you would have done if Spikes was not applicable to shields. Would it have changed your strategies? In the grand scheme of things, is Shield Charge a balanced feat?

 

[smetzger]

But a charge requires all the movement in the round to be in a straight line, so you would have to keep moving forward after the attack. Probably deep within enemy lines.

IceBear

Spring Attack does not require you to continue moving after you make your attack. It "allows" you to make a move after your attack if you so chose.

For Charge, you halt your movement when coming within striking distance of your target.

 

[IceBear]

Ok then...need to brush up on Spring Attack it seems

IceBear

 

[Ramien Meltides]

Ki Ryn,

Considering two things, I would say that yes, Shield Charge is a balanced feat.

1. The requirements for Shield Charge require Improved Shield Bash and Power Attack, so it's the third in a chain of feats. Not unlike Whirlwind attack in that regard, it's a feat whose power is somewhat based on it's place in the chain.

2. Charge, as you know, has it's own disadvantages. It requires straight line movement, can't always be accomplished in a dungeon or aboveground fighting environment, and invites several AoO's from opponents with Reach. Thus, not the ideal maneuver. Also, it's only good for one shot per round, as others have pointed out.

For those two reasons, I'd say that Shield Charge is balanced, and I was planning to pick it up before we even started talking about using Spikes

 

[tburdett]

Amen!

Spring Attack does not require you to continue moving after you make your attack. It "allows" you to make a move after your attack if you so chose.

For Charge, you halt your movement when coming within striking distance of your target.

Yes! Somebody gets it! Too many people fail to understand that words like 'may', 'can', and 'allow' give you the option to do something, those words do not require you to do something.