Shilsen's Eberron SH (Finished - The Last Word : 9/20/15)

[Furby076]

Session 52: XP by CR = 1080 each; XP handed out by me = 2000 each
Session 53: XP by CR = 960 each; XP handed out by me = 2000 each
Session 54: XP by CR = 1080 each; XP handed out by me = 2000 each
Session 55: XP by CR = nil each; XP handed out by me = 2000 each

While I am not doubting your math, or your assumptions you are neglecting something - XP is also given for doing things out of combat. So if session 52 you gave us 1080 xp for mobs, there is xp you need to give us for other things (i.e. making fun of the BBEG and walking out of his house unscathed because of hospitality tradition)

Now given that, I don't really care much for XP. I just want to level. Now get me those extra two levels of Exorcist of the Silver Flame (it's gotta be monumental, since you know I get to flame on like the Human Torch, and well it's the last time I will b etaking that class level, at 10).

 

[Furby076]

The amount of xp on strict CR basis in your campaign in any case tends to be artificially suppressed since you tend to favor monsters with class levels which gives a much larger "bang for the CR" than monsters straight out of the MM.

Survival = winning. We could have died in that encounter - very easily (i.e. by not stopping when they told us to, or making a silly move vs the werewolves.)

Also, shil's mobs would give more XP because they are above average (hit points ,elite array stats, and well they are shils).

Anyhow, I am not arguing against Shils XP method, just saying some things that pop into my head. The only thing we really worry about XP for is crafting items (or XP spells) and maybe if someone dies.

 

[Furby076]

Once you include the permanent stuff, au contraire. A few people on the thread about PC power levels told me I should be changing my name to Monty Haul

Yea they say that now, but they don't have real perspective (ours). Let them sit through one of your sessions and they won't say Monty Haul...most likely they will say "but, but, we're level 20, and that level 2 orc barbarian with a rusty dagger just killed us." and then curl up into the fetal position and cry.

 

[Rackhir]

Yea they say that now, but they don't have real perspective (ours). Let them sit through one of your sessions and they won't say Monty Haul...most likely they will say "but, but, we're level 20, and that level 2 orc barbarian with a rusty dagger just killed us." and then curl up into the fetal position and cry.

You know you can go back and edit your post to include new stuff. You don't need to make three separate posts.

 

[Vorput]

Naturally, nothing and nobody in the room is evil, other than the aura in Nameless’ chest

...Eugh... So Gareth doesn't detect evil as what is evil to the flame... but instead what is evil to the deranged fleshweaver?

If one of these were my characters, I would devote myself to becoming powerful enough to eventually track Mordain down, and wipe him and his abominations from the face of the earth.

I have made you a paladin.” Utterly surprised, Gareth now realizes that it is true, feeling the full favor of his deity enveloping him. A tiny voice buried deep in his mind wants to shout, “What? What did you do to me?” but it is buried under an irresistible tide of gratitude.

...That's really quite terrifying...



Does the +4 enhancment bonus overlap the permanent penalty? So do they all have a +2 to con now?

 

[shilsen]

And we all know Six's symbiont harness is vulnerable to sonic attacks, right?

Hmm - I sense something devious. Care to share why? Besides the very worthy reason of it obviously leading to more suffering, of course.

And to answer the question - sure, why not?

While I am not doubting your math, or your assumptions you are neglecting something - XP is also given for doing things out of combat. So if session 52 you gave us 1080 xp for mobs, there is xp you need to give us for other things (i.e. making fun of the BBEG and walking out of his house unscathed because of hospitality tradition)

Well, that's part of my point, actually. The XP by CR is the only truly codified aspect of XP in the core rules, with the rest being suggestions for things the DM can do. So it's significantly arbitrary, just as the whole idea of XP for killing things is. There are lots of RPGs out there which involve character improvement, and there are a huge number of ways in which it's handled. There's no real reason there should be necessary correlation between character advancement in D&D and the killing of creatures. So since it's significantly arbitrary, it's just much easier for me to embrace the reality and not use any partiuclar formula and pretend it makes more sense than another.

One of the interesting things I've noted over time on ENWorld is how many DMs seem to have dropped or are in the process of dropping XP based on CR, and quite often the entire concept of XP. For me as a DM, it just makes running my game so much easier without the former that I seriously can't conceive of 4e coming out with an XP system that would make me use formulae again. In fact, next time I DM, I'll drop XP totally. It's just not a necessary method to achieving what it is designed to.

Now given that, I don't really care much for XP. I just want to level. Now get me those extra two levels of Exorcist of the Silver Flame (it's gotta be monumental, since you know I get to flame on like the Human Torch, and well it's the last time I will b etaking that class level, at 10).

Like I said - only another year or so

Survival = winning. We could have died in that encounter - very easily (i.e. by not stopping when they told us to, or making a silly move vs the werewolves.)

You know, that fight vs. the werewolves was some of the best teamwork I've seen from the PCs. You guys not only did just what was needed to keep the enemy off balance and weakened, but constantly set up allies to take advantage of what you did. I think they landed all of two hits between the four of them before you guys ripped them apart.

Also, shil's mobs would give more XP because they are above average (hit points ,elite array stats, and well they are shils).

Only creatures I create with PC classes get elite array stats, as I've mentioned before, which is what the MM says they should do. And, as I've also mentioned before, you guys are well above average too. It evens out.

Admittedly, the Shil-born template is a mean one, but that's another story

Anyhow, I am not arguing against Shils XP method, just saying some things that pop into my head. The only thing we really worry about XP for is crafting items (or XP spells) and maybe if someone dies.

True. That's why I think I could work things just fine without an XP total. Still, it's not something I'll switch to right now.

Yea they say that now, but they don't have real perspective (ours). Let them sit through one of your sessions and they won't say Monty Haul...most likely they will say "but, but, we're level 20, and that level 2 orc barbarian with a rusty dagger just killed us." and then curl up into the fetal position and cry.

Now you're exaggerating. I can't murder you guys with 2nd lvl orc barbarians any more. I need at least CR 4 critters, and probably CR 5.

 

[shilsen]

...Eugh... So Gareth doesn't detect evil as what is evil to the flame... but instead what is evil to the deranged fleshweaver?

Well, the only evil in the room - that the players know of - was the evil in Nameless' chest and Mordain. And the latter could jst be protected.

Or it could be just what you mentioned.

And no, I ain't telling

If one of these were my characters, I would devote myself to becoming powerful enough to eventually track Mordain down, and wipe him and his abominations from the face of the earth.

Luna's player is already there, and we're completely certain that Luna will be when she manages to recover from the little treatment Mordain did to them. Let's just say the ending of the session before last was accompanied by a series of dire threats against Mordain and swearing that whether she could kill him or not, she was going to wreck his lair and lead to the loss of all the research and studies he values. Both Luna and her player have real issues with any NPC controlling their actions, and Mordain did that to the nth degree, so she really wants blood.

...That's really quite terrifying...

But ... but ... it was so ... nice. He made him a paladin! What could be cooler than that?

Admittedly, giving a Gatekeeper druid Aspects of the Aberrations isn't too bad, and maybe having impregnated Korm and/or Six as well isn't bad either, being neither of them is as, well, nice as making Gareth a paladin.

Right?

Does the +4 enhancment bonus overlap the permanent penalty? So do they all have a +2 to con now?

Yes, effectively. I'm pretty sure that 13 (currently 12 for Nameless) pts less is going to come haunt them in the near future.

BTW, thanks for the advertising space in your sig. Much appreciated!

 

[Vorput]

BTW, thanks for the advertising space in your sig. Much appreciated!

Heh, thanks for the great story hour!

 

[Furby076]

Well, that's part of my point, actually. The XP by CR is the only truly codified aspect of XP in the core rules, with the rest being suggestions for things the DM can do.

This is where i have to heavily disagree with you. Yes I know the front of the DMG says this is all "suggestions" but honestly, we are playing dnd. If you give a mob +100% life, +100% equipment, +100% abilities you just doubled the mob and should be giving +100% xp. The dmg spends some considerable time outlining it. So yea, making a mob have 25% more life then the norm should result in the mob giving more xp. Not "well maybe if i am nice".

One of the interesting things I've noted over time on ENWorld is how many DMs seem to have dropped or are in the process of dropping XP based on CR, and quite often the entire concept of XP. For me as a DM, it just makes running my game so much easier without the former that I seriously can't conceive of 4e coming out with an XP system that would make me use formulae again. In fact, next time I DM, I'll drop XP totally. It's just not a necessary method to achieving what it is designed to.

Dropping XP has a couple affects:
1) Easier for the DM. He doesn't have to calculate things which slows up his creation process.
2) Lets the DM control progression of leveling more easily. In a heavy dungeon crawl PCs may level very fast and the DM doesn't want that. Or the DM, in a low fighting campaign may want ot speed up leveling.

Some DM's use different methods because it is a valuable resource, others because they can't "fathom" giving the players 3000 XP in a given adventure. I don't care what a DM uses, as long as I level often enough to see progression (it gets boring being stagnant and I want to try new higher level abilities) and as long as it allows things like item crafting/etc.

You know, that fight vs. the werewolves was some of the best teamwork I've seen from the PCs. You guys not only did just what was needed to keep the enemy off balance and weakened, but constantly set up allies to take advantage of what you did. I think they landed all of two hits between the four of them before you guys ripped them apart.

I always tell the group FOCUS FIRE. Works in World of Warcraft, works in this game too.

Only creatures I create with PC classes get elite array stats, as I've mentioned before, which is what the MM says they should do. And, as I've also mentioned before, you guys are well above average too. It evens out.

And you still manage to kill PCs a lot, so either we suck or you are just insane. I know I don't suck.

Now you're exaggerating. I can't murder you guys with 2nd lvl orc barbarians any more. I need at least CR 4 critters, and probably CR 5.

Yea my point exactly

 

[shilsen]

We played this Saturday, but it'll be a while before the next update. I'm coming in on the end of the semester, so I've got crazy amounts of grading, especially since I let my students in one class rewrite any and all papers, and am letting students in the other mail me papers for feedback before they're finally due. They so do not pay me enough for this!

Also, I'll be off in India from mid-May to mid-August, so the campaign will be on hiatus then, and I'd like to save up some stuff so that I can make a few updates then. I've got 1.5 sessions worth left to cover, and hopefully we'll be playing twice more before I leave, so there'll presumably be a fair bit for me to write up.