Shilsen's Eberron SH (Finished - The Last Word : 9/20/15)

[Rackhir]

But seriously, after what happened to Gareth, you really believe that? I mean, if shilsen has taught you anything, it should be that the past isn't the dustbin of history, but a living collection of grudges and secrets that jump up and maul off your face the second it gets a good shot at scarring you. How did you guys end up with all these modifications in the first place? Oh yeah, you guys ran off to Xen'drik in the middle of a plot thread... and then failed to kill the druid dangling at the end of that thread when you came back... who came back and killed Nameless... and now you're juggling the second nuke of the campaign. shil might be the one who puts you through all this, but you really have to realize that ultimately, you all are the ones who are stepping through those obviously trapped doors.

We are the people who pull the leaver marked "Danger".

No matter what we do or don't do, something is going to come back to bite us in the ass. What we do/don't do might change exactly what, but something is going to. As Shil has posted above. We can't cover every plot thread he tosses out and just being involved in some plot threads is going to screw us. As not being involved would screw us in a different way. So we are basically going to get screwed no matter what we do.

So yes our past is in a sense irrelevant since we're going to be getting screwed no matter what.

You know, I was considering waiting to make a more complete post, but this was seriously too good to pass up. '...defined much more by their personalities than their past' indeed. Next thing you'll tell me is that a troupe of thugs you should be able to wither by looking in their direction can't soundly trounce you.

What I mean by pasts aren't as important as personalities is this. Here are the backgrounds for the Angels only slightly summarized.

Luna - Doesn't even has as much history as Korm and Six. Has ONLY a personality and her personality is something even epic level spells are impotent to change.

Korm and Six's History - Was born. Met up with these guys and decided to go risk my life with them.

Nameless - Wandered out of the mists of the Mournland shortly after the Day of Mourning. Doesn't remember anything about who he is/was. Insists that he is "nameless". Has a rock he calls Edgar, that he talks to.

Gareth - Go read the Rogues Gallery entry.

Only Gareth has a history that can't be summed up in slightly more than a sentance. Nameless in particular is completely unconcerned with what he was or may have been. He only cares about what he is and what he may become.

Most of what the characters are comes out of the personalities of the players and that's something no amount of in game magic can change (unless perhaps you're playing "Dark Dungeons").

Don't make me list all the ideas I have whirring in my head that can seriously screw Nameless up.

Like you wouldn't tell Shil anyway.

Is programmed amnesia a published spell? or something you created?

It's a spell from the Spell Compendium. It might have originally have been from one of the Complete books, but I don't recall.

 

[Seekerofskill]

You go along and keep thinking that. Ask Gareth sometime how that turned out.

But seriously, after what happened to Gareth, you really believe that? I mean, if shilsen has taught you anything, it should be that the past isn't the dustbin of history, but a living collection of grudges and secrets that jump up and maul off your face the second it gets a good shot at scarring you. How did you guys end up with all these modifications in the first place? Oh yeah, you guys ran off to Xen'drik in the middle of a plot thread... and then failed to kill the druid dangling at the end of that thread when you came back... who came back and killed Nameless... and now you're juggling the second nuke of the campaign. shil might be the one who puts you through all this, but you really have to realize that ultimately, you all are the ones who are stepping through those obviously trapped doors.

You know, I was considering waiting to make a more complete post, but this was seriously too good to pass up. '...defined much more by their personalities than their past' indeed. Next thing you'll tell me is that a troupe of thugs you should be able to wither by looking in their direction can't soundly trounce you.

Don't make me list all the ideas I have whirring in my head that can seriously screw Nameless up.

Your points would have more weight if not for the group's primary way of dealing with things, denial and self-delusion.

 

[shilsen]

Is programmed amnesia a published spell? or something you created?

As Rackhir posted above, it's from Spell Compendium. It originally came out in Complete Arcane.

I've actually got this GREAT idea for a campaign now...

Granted, my players tend to be pretty free-willed... me telling them their characters had different alignment/personalities than they though probably wouldn't go over well... might even end the campaign, but it does seem like a good idea...

It sounds like a cool idea, but as usual, you'd have to make the judgement call on how it works with your particular set of players. It's definitely not a concept that would work with all groups. I've got a pretty free-willed group of players too, and the way I would do it if I used your idea would be to leave the eventual choice of which way to go up to the PCs/players.

Once they gradually came to the realization that they were actually bad guys who'd been reprogrammed, the PCs would still have the memories of being good guys (the caster of Programmed Amnesia can include a trigger event to remove some or all of the programming, but I wouldn't use that option), and could try to act on them instead and actually become the heroes that they were forced to be. Think of Schwarzenegger's character in "Total Recall" as an example. If you leave that up to the players and PCs to decide, then it gives them the choice to retain their character concepts, or part of it,while also having a lot of scope for fun roleplaying and adventures as they struggle between their 'natural' and 'programmed' characters.

Something which is a big no-no for me as a DM is messing up a player's character concept, but messing with it in the short-term is just fine, especially if you can make sure that the player trusts you. That's precisely what I did with Gareth, Kizmet, the demon in his sword and finding out that he never was a paladin. AviLazar knew there's no way I would permanently remove his paladinhood, so he rolled with it very well, and it led to some really fun stuff in-game, created some very nice roleplaying situations for him, and opened up a whole lot of future plot points. And he ended up as a paladin again. Everyone wins.

In short, I think your concept can work out just fine.

So yes our past is in a sense irrelevant since we're going to be getting screwed no matter what.

Then, in that sense, the past of every character in every campaign is irrelevant.

What I mean by pasts aren't as important as personalities is this. Here are the backgrounds for the Angels only slightly summarized.

...

Most of what the characters are comes out of the personalities of the players and that's something no amount of in game magic can change (unless perhaps you're playing "Dark Dungeons").

"Dark Dungeons"?

As for no in-game magic changing the personalities of the players, that may be true, but whether in-game magic - or anything else - changes the personalities of the characters depends on the player's willingness and ability to roleplay influences on the character. If I told you that Mordain had reworked Nameless' personality and memories to make him a self-aggrandizing NE megalomaniac with the primary aim of taking down the Brelish monarchy or to make him an CG crusader with an especial dislike for goblinoids and the nation of Darguun, as a player you could still say, "Screw that - I'm going to play Nameless exactly the same way and ignore it."

So you're right, in-game magic can't change the character personality, though theroretically in-game magic plus me going "No, your character can't do X now" or "Your character does Y now" would change the personality. But since the latter is a lousy idea, I'd never do it, which means it's squarely in the hands of the players. I just figure that having character personality not change or develop at all, whatever in-game events happen, is a little boring. But that's up to the player to decide.

Like you wouldn't tell Shil anyway.

Someone sounds put upon

Your points would have more weight if not for the group's primary way of dealing with things, denial and self-delusion.

As in the PCs will deny and delude themselves that they have no influence on what happens to them? Sounds about right

 

[Rackhir]

"Dark Dungeons"?

It's from the infamous Jack Chick tract. "Dark Dungeons" was the name of the pseudo-D&D game the tract was warning people against. Since playing it taught you "real" magic that you could use to control people's minds.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

 

[shilsen]

It's from the infamous Jack Chick tract. "Dark Dungeons" was the name of the pseudo-D&D game the tract was warning people against. Since playing it taught you "real" magic that you could use to control people's minds.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp

Oh, I recognized the reference, hence the smiley. It's hard to have been on ENWorld for a long while and not have made the pleasure of Chick's acquaintance.

 

[shilsen]

On Saturday, we played our last session before I take off to India for the summer. Once I'm there (16th), I'll start writing up and posting updates again. I've got two sessions to cover and we'll be handling some things online which should provide added material, so there should be a few more updates to come.

 

[Solarious]

And then, we have months and months to plot out the numerous and varied locations the Angels shall be visiting in a whirlwind tour of Khorvaire for the next year or so. They'll thank us, don't you agree?

 

[fafhrd]

I've seen you popping your head out in general, Shilsen. If you have time to gab, you have time to write an update.

Seriously though, I'm going to miss the storyhour. Have an enjoyable and safe trip.

 

[shilsen]

And then, we have months and months to plot out the numerous and varied locations the Angels shall be visiting in a whirlwind tour of Khorvaire for the next year or so. They'll thank us, don't you agree?

Oh yes - I'm sure they will (where's an 'angelic innocence' smiley when you need one?). And it's a very timely break, since the PCs made a potentially recurring enemy in their last session. One with lots of abilities, some strong (and deadly) connections, and right now a really burning hatred for them. Also, appropriately enough for what's turning out to be this campaign arc, one who really hates Nameless. So the break is perfectly timed for me to work out exactly what she's going to be doing, and how.

Sorry, make that "for us to work out"

I've seen you popping your head out in general, Shilsen. If you have time to gab, you have time to write an update.

Probably true, but when you're doing the myriad things you've got to do as a student and a foreigner when traveling from the US nowadays, as well as additional work since I've got to put away all my stuff in storage since I'm not returning to this apartment, not to mention grading 120 papers and exams, I think "escaping" is a more appropriate term than "time to gab"

Seriously though, I'm going to miss the storyhour. Have an enjoyable and safe trip.

Thanks. Anyway, there'll be at least four and maybe more story hour updates before I'm temporarily done, so don't start missing it yet.

 

[fafhrd]

Probably true, but when you're doing the myriad things you've got to do as a student and a foreigner when traveling from the US nowadays, as well as additional work since I've got to put away all my stuff in storage since I'm not returning to this apartment, not to mention grading 120 papers and exams, I think "escaping" is a more appropriate term than "time to gab"

The simple byproduct of being so competent: high expectations.

Thanks. Anyway, there'll be at least four and maybe more story hour updates before I'm temporarily done, so don't start missing it yet.

Not a chance.