Shootout at the D&D Corral

Dungeons & Dragons has many influences, including European and American authors. Of the American influences, one genre is sometimes overlooked but just as critical: the Western.
Dungeons & Dragons has many influences, including European and American authors. Of the American influences, one genre is sometimes overlooked but just as critical: the Western. [h=3]D&D and the Wild West[/h]One of TSR's earliest founders was co-creator of D&D Gary Gygax's good friend Don Kaye. In addition to helping fund TSR in its early days, Kaye was one of the first players of D&D, even hosting Gygax's sand table in his garage. In the second round of playtesting, Murlynd would debut, a magic-user who was fond of Westerns.

Kaye's fondness for Westerns seeped into D&D itself; Gygax allowed an exception for Murlynd to use his six-shooters in Greyhawk, a world where gunpowder doesn't work. Kaye had plans to create a Wild West RPG, aspirations that were tragically cut short, as retold by Gygax in an interview with Scott Lynch:

As D&D was "blowing out the door" at the rate of over 100 a month by summer, Don began to look forward eagerly to doing a Wild West RPG. He planned to draft rules as soon as he could quit his job to work for TSR. We projected that would be possible in about a year or so. Don was very happy. Then, in January of 1975, he had a massive and fatal heart attack. He was only 36 years old when that happened. How ironic, I thought, as I became the first paid employee of the company in June of 1976, Don's birthday month, he being exactly one month older than I. Don was then and still is sorely missed by me. Brian Blume and I went on to create the Boot Hill RPG in Don's memory. He would likely have done it better.

Gygax never forgot Kaye's contributions. There's a section in the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide that provided conversion rules:

D&D’s earliest GMs were encouraged to bring guns into their fantasy worlds in the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide, which included a short section called “Sixguns & Sorcery.” This provided not only rules for converting between AD&D and Boot Hill (TSR’s Wild West roleplaying game, first published in 1975), but it also statted up several different guns. Derringers did 1d4 damage, while other handguns did 1d8 damage. Dynamite did a whopping 4d6 damage—or 6d6 if the DM allowed a saving throw!​
[h=3]The Weird West[/h]We know that Gygax was a fan of Westerns, but what's sometimes overlooked is how the themes of the genre carried over into D&D. Blog of Holding points out how Gygax's sources of inspiration had Wild West elements to them:

Re-reading Burroughs’ A Princess of Mars recently, I was struck with how explicitly it’s a Western. John Carter fights savages on dead sea bottoms, gropes through caverns looking for treasure, and fights weird monsters. And that’s all before he goes to Mars. The first episode of the novel is a shoot-em-up Arizona adventure which encapsulates all the rest of the book. Mars is Arizona writ large, with bigger and drier deserts, more savage natives, more accurate guns, faster horses, and more faithful dogs. In structure, the book is a lot like the Wizard of Oz movie: a reasonably plausible day, followed by a fantasy dream sequence version of the same events. The second of Gygax’s sources, Howard’s Conan, is similar. Howard was a Texan who wrote Westerns along with his fantasy stories, cowboys-in-the-Middle East stories, and boxing stories. It’s frequently argued that Conan is a Western hero. His martial skills allow him to triumph over the lawless savages and over the decadent “civilized” folk of his wild land. That’s what cowboys do.

For more parallels, a Hungarian author named Melan provides some much needed perspective:

Let us examine the world of the Western. What we see is wilderness. You can find a few settlements (mainly small towns) here and there, but the main stage for the action is the almost entirely uninhabited land. This is a rather important trope, as spotlights one of the main qualities of „adventurers”: the perform their acts not due to the social motivation or compulsion, but because of their own inner conviction. In the West – and in Hyboria or many parts of Greyhawk – the individual is alone. He cannot expect the Law to stand by or against him. The city guard (the sheriffs) are busy with the survival of their own little community and do not represent a serious obstacle for a sufficiently armed and dedicated guy. He has to create justice by himself, and his only reliable tool for that is armed violence.

This may be why recent Star Wars installments feel like RPG sessions, because they're both drawing on Western tropes:

It also follows from this logic that society cannot keep sufficiently high-level adventurers in check. In a world like this, social position is much less important than a strong arm or a sharp blade. This world is completely at oppositon to the High Middle Ages, and is much more similar to the world of tales where the youngest son of the poor farmer can become a king, he just has to defeat the giants first. This doesn’t mean that this sort of fantasy world cannot have oppressed masses, but it’s certain that it won’t be emphatic in the sphere where player characters move. A game can have adventurers be individuals located outside the normal world of bulls and feudal lords, or it can have the idealised American world hide behind the chainmail, the peasantry and the longsword. Here, the individual can pick up a sword or a gun as he wishes, and set off into the big nothing to make his desires come true. And when he retires and buys the inn in Dodge City, nobody will ask him if he got his first five levels from looting tombs and massacring orcs (bandits? indians? peaceful villagers?). What is certain is that whatever he achieved, he achieved it with his own strength.​

D&D is a mix of many influences, but its tone and style of play -- adventurers on their own making a name for themselves -- seems like it was influenced as much by high fantasy epics as it was by gritty showdowns in the Wild West.

Mike "Talien" Tresca is a freelance game columnist, author, communicator, and a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to http://amazon.com. You can follow him at Patreon.
 

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Michael Tresca

Michael Tresca

Hussar

Legend
Yes, [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], we're supposed to forget that pretty much every continent in the real world features caverns that are miles, if not tens of miles long. And, a bunch of unlooted tombs within walking distance? Egypt anyone? Heck, I live in Japan. You can't go ten feet without tripping over some tomb. Didn't some kid just find a thousand year old sword in a lake in Switzerland or Sweden or something like that?

Again, I really get the sense that folks just don't really get how OLD most of the world is. It's not like America where the oldest man made structures are only a couple of centuries. I mean, heck, you can walk from Phnom Pehn to Angkor Wat in a few days (the river goes right there - by motorboat it's three hours), yet a city of over a million inhabitants was almost completely lost until the 19th century.

Good grief, they discover tombs and whatnot pretty much weekly in places like Jerusalem. And this is a place that has been constantly inhabited for thousands of years. Good grief, they are STILL finding tombs and whatnot in England that no one knew about.

This notion that apparently English peasants traveled hundreds or even thousands of miles on a regular basis is just a bizarre view of history. Sure, people traveled. Yes, that's true. The overwhelming majority of them didn't though. Yet, all these places STILL manage to have rich histories with all sorts of stories and legends. Again, I live in Japan. Now here's a country where people REALLY didn't travel. For centuries. Other than the very highest levels of society, no one traveled more than a couple of days. Well, them and pirates. :D

Is anyone seriously going to claim that you couldn't run a pretty darn interesting campaign set in feudal Japan? I've seen at least half a dozen RPG's that would disagree with you.
 

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pemerton

Legend
[MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION], absolutely. I've never lived in a non-settler colony country, but I've been a tourist in Egypt, in Morocco, in Zanzibar, in Palestine and Israel. And I have run an interesting campaign set in a fantasy version of feudal Japan!
 

Aldarc

Legend
Good grief, they discover tombs and whatnot pretty much weekly in places like Jerusalem. And this is a place that has been constantly inhabited for thousands of years. Good grief, they are STILL finding tombs and whatnot in England that no one knew about.
The inhabitants of Renaissance Rome were discovering, exploring, and uncovering ruins within their own ancient city.

The Prydain Chronicles of Lloyd Alexander take place entirely within a fantasy version of Wales. Wales. It is epic fantasy with lots of travel, but by D&D standards of geography, the setting would be downright pedestrian.
 

Thomas Bowman

First Post
The inhabitants of Renaissance Rome were discovering, exploring, and uncovering ruins within their own ancient city.

The Prydain Chronicles of Lloyd Alexander take place entirely within a fantasy version of Wales. Wales. It is epic fantasy with lots of travel, but by D&D standards of geography, the setting would be downright pedestrian.

No magic, that's why!
 


Hussar

Legend
How do you explain A Song of Ice and Fire then? Other than some bit pieces, the vast majority of the action takes place in a fantasy version of upside down England and Scotland. It's not like ASoF doesn't have magic. Tad William's Osten Ard from The Dragonbone Chair series isn't very big at all. Days of travel, not weeks and certainly not months.

Heck, I look at the town I live in. Within 10 miles of where I'm sitting right now, there is a 1500 year old tomb, a 1000 year old temple, several limestone cave systems plus several more small caves, a couple of mountains, a marsh, a 500 year old (I think, I'm not exactly sure) ruined castle on top of a large hill, and more bloody temples and shrines than you can shake a stick at. Oh, and a coastline where all sorts of nasty beasties could come from. And all of that is within an easy day's walk.

Expand that to the single island of Kyushu? Good grief, there's so much adventure fodder stuff here that you couldn't possibly do it justice. And Kyushu's hardly big. It's only about 400 miles long, maybe 500. Just to give you an idea of what it actually means to be an old country, the town I live in, which is only 15 miles from a major city, has a distinct accent from that city. People can tell that someone is from this town (or a neighboring town) rather than from the city that's easy walking distance.

That's why I don't really like these massive, sprawling settings. Even in 3e, all we typically got were high altitude views of different areas of Forgotten Realms. Which really does a disservice to creating a setting with any depth. I have to give Paizo props here for how they have presented Golarian. You get a region AND an entire campaign with each region. It's not like you have to travel half the bloody continent in the Paizo AP's. Most of them are confined to a fairly small region. It's, IMO, a much, much better way to present a setting.
 

Derren

Hero
How do you explain A Song of Ice and Fire then? Other than some bit pieces, the vast majority of the action takes place in a fantasy version of upside down England and Scotland. It's not like ASoF doesn't have magic. Tad William's Osten Ard from The Dragonbone Chair series isn't very big at all. Days of travel, not weeks and certainly not months.

An England large enough to also contain Spain (Dorne) and Skandinavia (Iron Island).
And the plots that happen in Italy (Bravos), Mongolia (Grass Sea) and Arabia (Mereen) are quite significant and not just "some bit piece".
 
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Hussar

Legend
An England large enough to also contain Spain (Dorne) and Skandinavia (Iron Island).
And the plots that happen in Italy (Bravos), Mongolia (Grass Sea) and Arabia (Mereen) are quite significant and not just "some bit piece".

Yes, because cherry picking examples and ignoring the larger argument makes your point so well. :rant:

But, hey, feel free to ignore things like the fact that the Sword Coast, never minding the larger Forgotten Realms setting, is LARGER than Europe. In other words, most of those places you just named off would fit in about a quarter of the Sword Coast map. Thank you for proving my point. These ginormous settings are very much useless as far as I'm concerned and really unrealistic.

Here's something to put it in perspective:

35b9f565d1d472f7d94f585c5e246941.jpg
 

Derren

Hero
Yes, because cherry picking examples and ignoring the larger argument makes your point so well. :rant:

But, hey, feel free to ignore things like the fact that the Sword Coast, never minding the larger Forgotten Realms setting, is LARGER than Europe. In other words, most of those places you just named off would fit in about a quarter of the Sword Coast map. Thank you for proving my point. These ginormous settings are very much useless as far as I'm concerned and really unrealistic.

Here's something to put it in perspective:

35b9f565d1d472f7d94f585c5e246941.jpg

Not my problem that you bring bad examples and cherry pick from Ice&Fire while completely ignoring that the plot of it spans most of Europe and Asia if put into real world terms or that according to GRRM Westeros (England+Scotland) is about as large as South America.
 

Hussar

Legend
Not my problem that you bring bad examples and cherry pick from Ice&Fire while completely ignoring that the plot of it spans most of Europe and Asia if put into real world terms or that according to GRRM Westeros (England+Scotland) is about as large as South America.

Yeah, did a bit of extra digging. They extrapolate the size of Westeros based on the description of the Wall. Fair enough.

So, yup, you are technically right on that one. And technically right is the best kind of right. Well done you.
 

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